I would just like some honest opinions on the Laguna penetrator as i am thinking of getting one for open water paddling combined with river distance? Or is there an other model or brand that i should be looking at that offers the same speed but is maybe easier to ride? Being a bigger person is there another option that someone could recommend, or are they the best (penetrator)?

Your replys appreciated!

IN the west

stu

stu campbell has to be the best thinker in the shaping game,his resume reads pretty well,i watched the penetrator develope into this racing machine,woogy just flys on them.to win the 25 km race at coffs harbour by 25 minutes is testimony to the board as well as woogies ability.his steering mechanism is a step ahead of anything else available.

Hi Stuey, this might be a better thread for my question. Could you please outline your thoughts recreational use and sizing of Penetrators.

Length - Is it worth the hassle of a 16 or 18 foot board when maybe the benefit over a 14 or even 12'6" is small. Is it simply related to waterline length and speed or the wave size/shape and spacing for downwinders. For example the wind fetch in the Bay in Melbourne is quite steep and very close together. If you could please do a little summary of the length/width pros and cons that would be great. Also weight of paddler, I'm 69kg so does that mean a shorter board is better? (wish you hadn't called the 14 footer a girls board - you can take off the tassles on the handlebars, the basket off the front and paint it matt black but you're still on your sisters old bike....)

Steering systems - can imagine they are fantastic for side wind trimming, is this the main purpose?

Is the carbon fibre board too fragile for recreational use (impossible question) can imagine the odd little wave incident or inevitable bump when moving something this big.

Any info would be great Stuey, thank you.

Hi Jonathan,
I'll answer in more detail tonight as I'm about to go to work. The 14' you saw refered to as a girls board is just that, it's a thinner model designed specifically for a womens generally lighter frame. There is a guys 14' that would work really well in the shorter period wind chops of a shallow water bay situation and it comes in an assortment of manly colours.........

This is something I am also wondering about. I have read most of Stueys post and his reasoning behind the shape of the Penetrator but I am still left with a few questions.

1. If the Pene displacement shape is so revolutionary and gives such an advantage over flat bottoms then why do large companies like Naish, C4, Bark etc not produce a SUP in that style? Is it because their designers are not as accomplished as Stu or are they not technically capable of producing the board in their factories or is it some other reason?

2. Are there any conditions where a regular flat bottom 14 foot SUP is going to outperform a displacement Pene 14? I'm thinking of things like acceleration from a standing start, paddling into or side on the wind, catching bumps or any other situation.

3. We have heard that the displacement hull Pene can often seem less stable when first getting on it (position of the rails etc) How does stability compare with regular SUP when moving along at a good clip.

4. How much difference is their really between 14 and 16? I often paddle in remote areas that I have to drive to by 4wd, go by sailing yacht or even get a lift in a small dinghy. Anything over 14 feet is going to present major logistical challenges. You can call a 14 foot Pene a girls board if you think it may chasten the ego of the buyer and force them to upgrade to 16 or 18 ft but the reality is I'm just going to look at other brands with a 14 foot model that are not painted pink. I'm a big guy (6ft-100kg) but I cannot imagine a 14 foot board (girls design or not) that is going to struggle to float me.

Ok thats a few questions there and probably overlaps with some of the other Qs in this thread. Stuey be interested to hear your thoughts.

Here's my opinion of the 507 (16ft) Penetrator:

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44174

Piros said...

I ride a Dale Chapman DC16 with a foot rudder and love it ,it's slightly wider than the penetrator making it more stable. Narrower is faster but if you are not comfortable on the board you can't go fast. Stuey hand shapes his boards and does a beautiful job but Dale uses a CNC router which makes it easier for Dale to fine tune the boards as they are constantly improving.

From Woogie - There is no Stability issue with the Pene - if anything it has more stability as it rolls with the ocean and as Stu has said before it is a self righting board so will only roll so far - it is the paddle how jumps off when they fell like they are going to fall.

Woogie as been on a range of different boards Vortice, F16, DC 16, Pene 14 & 16 & The Bark and has found the Pene to be more stable, fast, easy to maneuver while on waves or bumps.

With Stu hand shaping the boards you can ask for specific measurements - in width, length & Thickness so for 4XL you could ask for a thinker board to help with float & wider to help with stability. I think Stu's First Pene that was shaped for the Moffits to Mooloolaba race was about 30 wide.

Remember that shot of you Piros in the Seaway race where you had that massive save - time on the board goes without saying - what ever board you purchase be happy with your choice but only time on the board makes you a better paddler on that Board.




From Woogie written by Mrs Woogie

You got to remember that the boards that Woogie has been riding are racing boards not recreational boards so he has asked Stu fro max speed with maneuverability.

JonathanC said...


Length - Is it worth the hassle of a 16 or 18 foot board when maybe the benefit over a 14 or even 12'6" is small. Is it simply related to waterline length and speed or the wave size/shape and spacing for downwinders. For example the wind fetch in the Bay in Melbourne is quite steep and very close together. If you could please do a little summary of the length/width pros and cons that would be great. Also weight of paddler, I'm 69kg so does that mean a shorter board is better? (wish you hadn't called the 14 footer a girls board - you can take off the tassles on the handlebars, the basket off the front and paint it matt black but you're still on your sisters old bike....)

I'm a light weight and I have been on all of the Pene 14, 16 & 18 I have also been on the Vortice. I think the guys are spoilt for choice and should stop complaining when someone actually says that a board is designed with the ladies in mind - we are totally a different frame to men so a board needs to have slightly different dimensions. The board isn't the difference in the end it is the paddle on top of a specific style of board.

I average around 54 - 55kg so when Stu said he could do a board for me that I could sink and get maximum water line length I was happy - I have been out on the 18ft when it as hell windy but I just got blown around and even with a rudder system I was struggling and this is just because of my weight. I think the biggest bonus you have with talking with Stu about the Pene is he will listen to your ideas and what you want - I would get a steering system in the 14 ft Pene so on more technical days you would be able to maneuver from bump to bump.

What would happen if you heard that the Kialoa Methane was a ladies paddle or the C4 Nalu was a ladies paddle - there is no such thing as mens or ladies - but keep in mind that when it comes to boards ladies hold there center of gravity in a different area (Hips)

Piros said...

Dale will be also making my new 12'6 race board this will be his first, so it will be interesting.
Rob

So does this mean you have sold a board or did you do the "Honey I am getting you a board" speach???

kiakaha said...

Remember that shot of you Piros in the Seaway race where you had that massive save - time on the board goes without saying - what ever board you purchase be happy with your choice but only time on the board makes you a better paddler on that Board.

C'mon give me break hasn't Woogie almost fallen off once ? and I had had been supping for a grand total of 3 months when I entered that race and I only feel off once in 5-1/2 hours , so I reckon you can call my board stable.

At this stage I still have a 16 footer in my shed next to my 9-10 hopefully she won't notice the 12-6

NewcastleSUP said...

I have heard a rumour it has been sold to one of your friends Jodie to train on for an upcoming big inter island race somewhere east of us.......

who what where ???

What board has been sold??

kiakaha said...

NewcastleSUP said...

I have heard a rumour it has been sold to one of your friends Jodie to train on for an upcoming big inter island race somewhere east of us.......

who what where ???

What board has been sold??

No it hasn't been sold but it is for sale.

FOR SALE 1/ DC16 full carbon construction with foot rudder excellent condition
only $1,500 phone Rob 0414267478 [email protected]

Mac I'm hoping to sell this before the 12-6 arrives , I'll make sure it's the same colour just in case.

That didn't take long my DC16 is sold and off to Victoria...... not to DJ but another fireman DH.

Well done Dave - thought you wanted a 12'6"!! Looking forward to seeing it in action, you really didn't need to do it though, you were already the fastest guy on the Bay.

Piros said...

That didn't take long my DC16 is sold

Piros,can you come over and sell some of my stuff
you super salesman you

mac

Alright I'm finally home after a long, hard day in the pit, I've washed off the dust, eaten my microwaved dinner and am now ready to answer some questions and counter some misconceptions!!!

First up, talk about a thread highjacking that very nearly turned into a ** fight. Poor 4XL asks a couple simple questions and in the space of 12 hours we've had everything from Piros selling boards to people discussing curtain colours. I'd like to make it clear that although the Penetrator design, be it 12'6", 14', 16' or the Big Daddy of the fleet the 18'8" are all incredibly fast they ARE NOT specifically a RACE board, a downwinder or an open-ocean board. They are all these things and more being as at home exploring a river or crossing a lake as they are kilometres from shore or making lighter work of punching back into an uncooperative headwind.
Difficult to ride? I'll cite a couple of examples using the Penetrator 572 (18'8") that is currently being ridden (and loved) by a bunch of different paddlers on the worlds' most demanding test track, the North Shore of Maui. First up, it's owner, PonoBill. Bills' a gung-ho 62 year old, 110 kg ex-motor bike racer who divides his year between his homes in Maui and Oregon. He liked my ideas and design theories and the board I made him is no different to Woogies "race" board, same shape, same weight, same glass-job. Straight up blown away by the sheer speed of his new craft Bill was a little "wobbly" on his first few paddles. Despite less than ideal conditions since, he can now paddle it in rough water for hours at a time without going in, he's caught a runner that he stayed on for over a minute and he's hit a top speed of 22 kph. Bill took delivery of his Penetrator about 3 weeks ago!!!! Difficult to ride hey!!!! Or what about Larry? Known as La Perouse on Standupzone, Larry has been the grateful recipient of Bills' generosity. Oh yeah, during Bills' "difficult" 3 week learning period he's also managed to lend his board to a dozen or so other guys, Larry being one of them. A self confessed weekend paddler, Larry loved the board from the moment he hopped on and even got to enter a race on it completing the hour long triangular course in 2nd place just 29 seconds behind the winner, an experienced racer aboard an ultra-light SIC F18!!!! Larry said one of his favourite attributes of the Penetrator apart from it's speed was the deceptively amazing amount of stability it actually had.
Lobes had a few questions the first being that if the Penetrators full displacement hull is so "revolutionary" (I like that word) why haven't the large companies produced a sup in this vane? Well my New Guinean friend, we're treading new ground here and as the sport is still just a babe it's possible that I was the first to think of it or at very least was the first game enough to give it a go. I always knew that for a man powered craft a sleek displacement hull would be the quickest by a country mile but until I had made and Woogie had tested the first one the question had remained as to whether a paddler could stand upright without expending too much energy. The first board answered and the subsequent refinements and testing validated all my theories. Lobes question 2, are there any conditions where a regular flat bottom 14' Sup will outperform a 14' Penetrator? That's a big "negatory" unless of course you're looking for somewhere to do the ironing!!! Straight paddling speed, the easily driven displacement hull will come out on top every time, into the wind or side chop, same deal with the hull slicing as opposed to slapping. Downwind is where it really comes alive as the quicker speed converts to runners being caught that the slower paddling planning hull may have missed and the additional glide allows the displacement board to continue running long after it's high maintenance planning cousin has dropped off. Question 3 re stability I answered earlier with the Penetrator being more stable but in a different and more advantageous way with the bulk of the volume in the top of the rails as opposed to the bottom the boards stability actually increases the further you tip it up (quite handy if you're on your way over)!!!! Question 4 The difference between the 14',16' and 18' are definetly there but that being said all are fast boards. The 18'8" will eat up long distances and power into the wind more efficiently than it's smaller brothers but in certain conditions it can be a handful, for short period shallow water wind chop the 14' is probably more the ticket and manouvering the big one around on dry land carries the very real danger of poking someones eye out! There may be only 1 1/4 knots difference between the 14' and 18' but 2 hours will put them 5 kms apart.
Jonathan C the 14' sounds like the go for you, particularly if the majority of your paddling is in Port Phillip Bay as sometimes the 18'8" can get a little caught up in the shorter period chops. With your lighter weight you should fly on the 14' and have a ball with significantly more glide than the 12'6". The steering system is a great option which is used in the majority of cases for holding direction when either paddling into or across the wind and swell. In these situations it saves your shoulders by allowing you to paddle evenly on both sides as opposed to just the leeward side. The boards' carbon frame will readily take any number of whacks with the paddle, the skin of the boards is quite durable and with a reasonable amount of care you should have no troubles however the sun is definetly the enemy and leaving the board exposed for long periods on hot days should be avoided.
There was a comment in there about the way these boards are shaped. Yes I do every one by hand from start to finish commencing with a very large block of foam. After 36 years in the shaping bay and 20,000 handshapes if I couldn't reproduce EXACTLY what I envisaged without the aid of a computer and CNC router I'd wanna shoot myself.
Anyone who's interested in more about the Penetrator and my design theories can find numerous threads on www.standupzone.com and an upcoming detailed design story that is due out on Bills site www.kenalu.com. In late February early March the Penetrator 572 will also line up against a dozen of the O.S. distance Sups in a comparative showcase on Maui, the results of which will also be published on the KeNalu site.
As Forest said, "I'm tired and that's all I got to say about that"
Cheers and thanks for the enquiries,
Stuey