Bnaccas said...

I don't understand how people can't see that light weight boards will offer higher performance.
It is as plain as day!!!!!!!!! Besides being easier to throw around it means the rider will be less fatigued.

All surfers on the ASP surf lighter boards, the elite competitive mal guys have comp boards that are lighter.

The perfect example outside this industry, the best tennis rackets are super light for better swing weight.

Comparing varied weight heavy boards is going to be hard to notice a difference. Jump on a 5kg board and you will freik out!

Some guys just cant handle the fact that they just spent $2000 on the latest & greatest....& it's not

Some guys just cant handle the fact that they just spent $2000 on the latest & greatest....& it's not

In your opinion. Good to see you enjoying the boards you shape but can see why blokes are getting their backs up when your basicly calling the boards they ride sh1t.

Hi Drewsta,

I apologise rich's board is the 9'6wRipper.
Not the 9'6WAA.

So yes the comparison was quite close.

Phill

Drewsta. said...

Just from pictures the 9'6 WAA looks a very different beast to the DC 9'4. Maybe a better comparison would be to the 9'6 WR

LSD,
Looking forward to the results of your trial. The reason I say this is because a friend of mine made a SUP out of an old windsurfing board and it ended up about 10 kg. It felt heavy on the beach but actually surfed quite well.

DJ,
Totally agree when it comes to windsurfing and kitesurfing boards. I think thats cos you use the wind power and every little bit of power seems huge so weight is a big issue.

Surfboards also because the good guys are doing airs and weight is a factor on how they feel. A half a kilo over 35 litres is a large weight.

I think its obviously better to have a light sup. Because of the size. i.e volume, the weight differences are quite low in percentage if you work out weight per litre volume. I think thats why a kilo or two over 140 litres of volume don't matter too much. Especially if weight reduction costs in strength.

Regards,
Scotty

Ben dover said...

Hey LSD,

Just a quick question what production boards have you tried?

Seems a bit out of left field for someone to say their boards are the sh1t and make the assumption that basically everyone else that is riding production boards are getting ripped off.

I don't ride production boards, because i make my own..

But i don't think that my boards are the best, let alone tell everyone else that there's are sh1t.

JUST MY OPINION!

I've had a quick shot on a few.. psh, naish, star, nsp, flick & others I cant recall any more
Thats not important what ive had a go on, I can usualy tell by first look & lift how it will go.
I've ridden so many things in my life I can usualy tell what is good & what is not.
I've been making surfboards, sailboards,kiteboards,foilboards for people since...buggered if I know... 1972?
IF I were going to paddle out at a windy 6' + Bells tomorrow & there were 2 boards to pick from, my 8'2" & say a 9' something psh/naish, I would certainly pick the latter. Horses for courses.

Please quote me where I have said "their boards are sh1t"

How many times do I have to say that I understand that many buyers of SUB's are happy with their purchace? They are not interested in what I'm doing
They like the brand, they like the well made board(YOU HEAR WHAT I AM SAYING YET!!!!!)
Many lines of boards will remain the same, but there is a strong desire by people who really want to surf well on SUB's to take it to the next level.
And the first thing you do to get there is ditch the god dam heavy board!
How many pro surfers do you see riding production.....HUH?
What is it with your comments? May be I'm not explaining it very well or something, I am trying to help the guys who like to buy production/brand, by making riders aware there is greater fun/performance to be had if manufactures make a lighter performance board.

Do you get it yet...or do I have to go on?

Yes you have to go on as I believe you are barking up the wrong tree. This is the reason windsurfing died we were after performance over everything. Had a ball today on very heavy boards in **** conditions.

Lets keep the fun, it may mean heavy may mean stable or strong.

What I like about this sport is I can take the family down and have fun on a stable strong platform that after a couple of months is not creased, does not have a loose fin box, dings in the rail, sucking water to delam and has good resale value.

There is room for premium brands to promote light is good. It is not the ultimate for all situations.

Support rez on her paddle.www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=54210&SearchTerms=exmouth

LSD said...

lacey said...

lsd, do you think that it will happen! i've just got my first brand board for a long time. while it's a really good and i'm pleased with it, i can't help thinking when i'm carting the board up the beach, how much better would it be if it was a lite weight
cheers

I think market pressure will eventualy make it happen..... It happened in sailboards.
When markets become stale/flooded & new ideas are needed?
It will only take one manufacturer to start quoting weights on boards in the performance range & it will be on.
They obviously have warranty concirns when going real light, & in production runs that is a major problem. So who knows they may just continue to be conservative?
Maybe when the sport matures a bit more & it's more defined what SUB surfers are gravitating to they will make the move.

I don't want to rehash an old issue-but the 106 Naish I had was pretty bloody light for its size-BUT it had durability issues-there is always a trade off somewhere.

I ride super lightweight shortboards (600-601 range) and currently a 903 PSH Ripper SUB-the Ripper feels like a heavy beast to me now (especaially after jumping off one of my shortboards).

I would LOVE a shorter lighter SUB that I can throw around-LSD is right-weight IS a huge issue and a heavy board a negative if you want to throw that board around (a positive in windy/bumpy conditions).

BUT there is a durability trade off with lighter boards (LSD has experienced this with his boards and I did (as did others) with the light 08/09 Naish boards).

Not sure that large scale production manufacturers would want to expose themselves to the warranty headaches associated with lighter SUBs.

It may the realm of niche local producers-and that's a good thing!

Actually LSD I will speak to a couple of leaders in the industry very soon a Mr Naish and a Mr Chambers with a bit of luck, No promises. Is there a question you want answered? Let me know i can but ask?

lacey said...

me, i not interested in keeping a board premo for years. i wont performance. to me they are surfboards that you change when you get bored or they aren't going the way you like them too. as long as they are made to a reasonable standard, ill cop the wear and tear.
this is my outlook, small sups should be/ need to be light
cheers
ps hi hilly, ask mr naish for me, if they can do a lite weight 8'10"

Yes my attitude exactly.
The scratched & dinged up old board in the extensive quiver will usualy be the best board

I think the point here is sailboards are tough and withstand big flat landings and constant smacking over chop where
your heels rarely leave a mark. They take a much bigger hammering than SUB's, they are tougher and are lighter.

Why can't this technology be put into high performance SUB's? A SUB manufactured with sailboard techniques would be too strong!

Some might say whats a few kgs, but we are talking 5-7kg compared to 9-12kgs. 40% to 50% lighter is a big deal.

- 9'6" Oxbow is 12kg
- 9'6" Naish approx 9kg
- PSH 10'AA approx 12kg

I'm not saying all SUB's need to be light, but a shorter surf specific SUB should be.

Bnaccas said...

I think the point here is sailboards are tough and withstand big flat landings and constant smacking over chop where
your heels rarely leave a mark. They take a much bigger hammering than SUB's, they are tougher and are lighter.

Why can't this technology be put into high performance SUB's? A SUB manufactured with sailboard techniques would be too strong!

Some might say whats a few kgs, but we are talking 5-7kg compared to 9-12kgs. 40% to 50% lighter is a big deal.

- 9'6" Oxbow is 12kg
- 9'6" Naish approx 9kg
- PSH 10'AA approx 12kg

I'm not saying all SUB's need to be light, but a shorter surf specific SUB should be.

GREAT Brendon...well stated..... THANKS!
Your % comment is what I was going to point out, a kilo here a kilo there makes a very noticible difference in a small SUB.
The smaller the board the greater the effect weight loss has.....not really rocket science is it.

Further.. to enlighten people to what I am trying to do for the sport.
4 months ago I took my first short boards to all the manufactures in Torquay, gave some a ride, some laughed, not in spite, but at the concept & how far I had taken it. I strongly suggested that they look into the small light SUB's as a new market will develop here.
If the big names grab the ball & run with it that remains to be seen, there will always be the local makers fill the gap.
So obviously I dont have any desire to fill that gap if I've tried to pass on my ideas, I have no commercial aspiration....I'm not interested.
I'm a bush mechanic/hobby builder/Surf bum.....LOL
I have more fun developing ideas that work.

When you say a "new market will develop here" - do you mean for people just getting into the sport? My first board was my PSH 9 3 which IS quite heavy but also very strong. I have absolutely flogged it, 4-5 surfs a week in many large swells (we have had a very good winter here in Sydney) and all it has is a few paint chips.

My next board is a light weight custom (coming soon) and at what I believe is a very reasonable price for a hand made product. I had at least 4 local manufactures to choose from and the order should take a but 5-6 weeks to fill - once again a reasonable time frame.

This brings me back to my question. Why do you keep going on about short, light SUPs, etc when the local Custom manufactures are already making em? Am I missing something? Or do you mean PSH, Naish, etc should be making 6kg, 8 foot production boards for the average person who surfs once or twice a week or are just starting out? This is obviously the largest market and one that is, IMO well catered for at the moment.

Yes I would like my PSH to weigh 6 kilos and be just as strong, but is this possible for a machine made pop out? The cracked Naishes from 09 are possibly a testiment to this not being such an easy task.

PS: LSD you should have a look at the new 8 10 Naish which is very light for a mass produced board and very high performance as well. Isn't this what you are talking about?

LSD, You said earlier that the smaller the board the greater the effect of weight loss is . Is that right? . Surely we should compare apples with apples. the only way to compare weights is with similar length boards. your comparing a 8/2 with a 9/6 . wouldn't we need to cut off the 14 inches of the 9/6 to get a real comparison . I've picked up a new Naish 8/10 and yep! very light. (An even closer comparison would be the 8/0) . I recon if you cut 8 inches off the front and removed the deck pad (Probably 1 kg ) how close would the weights be then. Dean, I cant really understand the dogmatic attitude you have about weight. How can you really be concerned about weight when your boards are made of glass not carbon fibre, you don't vacuum bag, you do artwork, you do gloss coats and you use a glass fin not a carbon fibre. Please explain . Rupert

LSD is right on with his thinking - if you cannot see it, you are the one that is tripping!

He more than anyone being 3 times world champ? should know what I'm on about.

Can you guys post the actual weights of ANY production boards from the smallest up to 9'
I would like to know AND so does everyone else. Why dont they quote on their sites?

(dont waste you time weighing anything longer, they are all heavy, & they dont have to be.........tight arse constructon..........make cheap... sell for a heap!)

I don't disagree that high performance SUPs should be light, that is why I have ordered one. Just saying that that base is already covered by local custom manufacturers and some of the big names are stepping up already.

So I am still not sure what you are banging on about and I am guessing neither do many others reading this thread.