Grantmac said..
The Ypra-s is likely a lot more skatey and less roll stability compared to what you're using. More glide though.

Making a fuselage to mount Gong wings is not hard with a mill (done it). The Phantasm mast mount also looks fairly simple unless I'm missing a subtle taper. I'm likely to make a fuselage to marry the two in the future for winging. Probably with a KD tail.

Cheers - you've used a lot of kit, which HA <600cm2 wings do you think will be most roll/yaw stable?
Preferably similar to Axis. Phantasm, Simmer, or Patrik wing/mast connection.
I don't have access to a mill to make a fuse - I built one from carbon but it was like a noodle in torsion.

Based on just looking at specs and shape:

sabfoil.com/en/products/wing-670-kite-race?_gl=1%2A1s129vq%2A_up%2AMQ..%2A_ga%2ANDY0MzAzMjc4LjE2NzU4ODIwODE.%2A_ga_W4KLQ40KM1%2AMTY3NTg4MjA3OS4xLjEuMTY3NTg4MjE5My4wLjAuMA..

But honestly I think you are looking at wings with too little area.

The ART uses a significantly thicker foil section based on measuring the 899 and 999, I haven't seen a 699 in the flesh but if you can get me the maximum thickness I can run a rough calculation on foil percentage. The other ARTs are upwards of +13% which is VERY thick (Gong is under 9% and SAB ~10%). This means they hit a big drag penalty past their designed speed. It does mean that they can take an aggressive vertical pump, but you aren't doing that with a windfoil anyway.

Also if you actually calculate the AR of both they are not that far off, plus I'm not convinced that AR is the ultimate determiner of glide. Thickness plays a huge role.

For giggles you could track down an original Starboard slalom foil. Black 95cm fuselage, 550 front and 255 rear.

I'm no SAB fanboy but they do offer a very wide array of wings that should bolt right onto your existing hardware. Even ones with continuous anhedral which should lock them in but not breach as calmly.

Grantmac said..
. Even ones with continuous anhedral which should lock them in but not breach as calmly.

might telling me what continuous anhedral is?

There are some tasty wings in the new SABFoil line-up. Definitely worth a demo.





Onda 835 amongst the Slingshot PTM's. It's an absolute ripper.

obenebo said..
I'm still wondering the point of this whole thread. There are obviously so many HA small wings out there, and have been for years, that will rip downwind (it's not that hard), what is new?

Considering the OP is a Slingshot/Simmer "Team Rider" who has been spamming the forum with promo videos, reviews, and hijacking any other thread to mention the Leyland P76 Slingshot I76 at any opportunity... what is it?

Slingshot are releasing a new wing? Tell us, please!

My objective (point of the thread) is - 25 knots speed, glide, power carves with optimum control downwind in winds 15-35 knots and 2m swells (and waves). The best glide I've experienced has been on <600cm2 HA wings.
There are a lot of small HA wings out there but I was hoping for input from anybody that's got a proven setup that works for my objective. Be stoked if anyone could post a video, I can't find anything.

Interestingly Jesper is ripping on the Simmer 580cm2 HA wing with the aluminium mast, finds the setup unstable in yaw/roll with the stiffer carbon mast.

Yeah, that may explain why azymuth is promoting the Simmer aluminum mast, excess inventory of aluminum masts because most want a stiffer carbon mast. My carbon AFS W95 foil has zero yaw/roll going downwind with the S670 cm2 mid aspect wing (think 7.2 AR). Second hand info. used to sell more aluminum masts, so if someone complains that the Simmer aluminum mast does have yaw/roll issues can blame Jesper!

I think the end of my small wing experiment.

Tested the AFS foil set with Predator proto in a good 18-25 seabreeze - cheers Daz for the loan

The larger wing (850cm2 ?) was similar in speed and control to my Simmer 920cm2/Phantasm mast combo.

Smaller wing (620cm2 ?) had improved roll/yaw control than other small foils I've tried - but I think the limiting factor for speed is the water state at my age/skill level. Wind over 20 knots the water turbulence seems to add drag so I top out at about 22 knots on all foils, big or small - on relatively narrow freeride boards.

I think I could hit 25 knots on a small wing in around 15-18 knots windspeed, but then the windswells are small so kind of negates the point.
800cm2 foil is probably the sweet spot for me for speed/carving fun in +20 knot winds.





850, 620cm2 front wings and rear wing

To me I think speed is irrelevant especially if you're concentrating on optimizing maneuverability. It takes the fun out of the session thinking about speed. You might as well do GPS sailing. You don't see wave sailors posting speed numbers for their sessions.

Nice thing about at least some amount of speed is that your gear is far enough from stalling that maneuvers (turns, jumps, tacks, jibes, freestyle [see Balz]) are more reliable and fun. If you are going so slow that your gear stalls or cavitates, you can't do much in the way of maneuvering.

Granted, crashes at higher speeds can be harder on you and gear, but--hey--it's only water. Come back up, wait for the steam to clear, and truck on. I should know; I spend a lot of time IN the water working on jibes. Rhonda used to say, "Speed is your friend." Still true on the foil.

Paducah said..
azymuth, have you benchmarked your gear in flat water? Wondering how much of the speedwall is water state vs narrower board and wave sails?
With top level IQFoilers are dragging their bigger wings through some pretty rough water at 25-27 kts got me pondering.
Blasting off the wind in big conditions is its own thrill. Glad to see you pushing the boundaries of things.

Agree - should try and find flat water to get a comparison speed, but I'm always chasing swells, even on the river

At a guess I would say narrow board/wave sails and rough water-state (ocean) each deduct a couple of knots of possible speed.
Rough water varies. 40 knots on the river is fun with a 2.8m - but unsailable on the ocean.

A couple of months ago I saw some of our young IQ guns offshore in strong winds - they were going pretty fast, maybe 25 knots.
No doubt age/fitness, skill and self-preservation instinct all play a part.

Had a chance to try my AFS W95 foil with S670 cm2 front wing on a downwind run in 25-30 knots, fastest I have ever gone, had to be 100% focused to avoid running into the back of 2+ foot waves that came on in a blur!, never felt like I was going to foil out, had perfect control and foil felt solid Now that was with the wing and stab. nearly perfectly aligned at 90 degrees to the mast using tape side shims, and using a foil mast shim set to 0.0 degrees on a Goya Bolt 135, with an Aerotech 4.5 Phantom sail that was somewhat overpowered going upwind, but was using upper clew grommet, next time will try lower clew grommet to reduce twist and power.

It was stated above: "Yeah it has a lot of lift, more than the 799" talking about the 720. (Presumably both are SABfoil.)

That has not been my observation. My 799 lifts almost as early as my 950, while my 720 requires considerably more board speed to lift and requires me to keep the pedal to the metal to keep it flying. It is a fast wing. The 799 has ~1100 cm2, and the 720 has ~750 cm2.