Chris 249 said..
just turning 5cm tighter in a 5m radius bottom turn.

Sideshore said..
Hello
I'm a 30 years wavesailor living in a light wind place so I've spent a lot of time of my life thinking of how to get into the water those light days without a monster sail. I've tried windsurf foiling but I didn't like to uphaul so I tried winging and It's perfect for flying in 12 knots with a 5m2 wing, not a 8 m2 heavy sail.

However, my very first and only love is wavesailing and this post pretends to be a help call. IMO, the main problem of windsurfing is not the complexity, size or weight of the equipment, but the prices. The feeling is uncomparable, and I've tried kitesurfing, wave supping and foiling.

I can find a new wing light board from last year at 500-600 euros, a wing at 450 euros and a complete foil at 600 euros. So, I can get a complete last year new winging equipment at 1500 euros. Which windsurfing equipment can you get new from last year at that price? Is a winging board so different from a windsurfing board? The foil tracks are very strengthened

A lot of time ago I used to buy last year new windsurfing boards at 1000 euros, now it's impossible. Nine years ago I began to buy only second hand boards in good condition at 800 euros. I will continue wavesailing even with very old repaired boards.

I guess the bigger the numbers the cheaper, but the prices were already very high before the arrival of winging.

One idea. Windsurfing manufacturers still use distributors than do nothing but make equipment much more expensive and don't add any value. For example, they sell second hand 4 years old boards at 1300 euros!!! One distributor per country for importing is enough. Internet selling works!! Gong has proved it.

I could be wrong, but manufacturers do know much more than me and do nothing. The only future of windsurfing is cheaper and more simple, not so many mast curves, not huge changes in the same board model from one year to another and even from one size to another in the same year....

PeterThommen said..
My 5 cents is that if the industry wants to survive, it will need to push volume. Volumes typically come at a lower margin.

Subsonic said..
Keep in mind too that winging is in its honeymoon phase.


Like kiting and windsurfing before it, right now its what everyone wants to be doing. Lots of space on the market for the cheaper mass producers who perhaps are willing to cut some corners to reduce production costs.


I can't say i was there for it, but im sure windsurfing went through the same thing. lots of producers (some being crap but cheap) =cheap equipment as they try to beat each others prices. Sooner rather than later people stop buying the crap (because it breaks) and the cheaper producers run out of steam. As the grain gets sorted from the chaff and the winging craze subsides, prices will start to rise. The producers that were charging more for their higher quality product in the first place, will be in a position to bring their prices up more, because they have less competition to worry about. And all that is without talking about the fact that prices on EVERYTHING are going up anyway.


i don't think the diversification of windsurfing equipment is a good thing overall. I guess if manufacturers can keep tabs on what they are going be able to sell of what, they might do ok. But the whole thing looks like a volatile mess at the moment, with too many disciplines to cover. Niche sports inside an already niche sport.

sheddweller said..
And I am saying if you want it cheaper you are going to pay for it in some fashion. ie you will get less for the less money you spend.
And I am saying that the psychology of this is not rational, everyone (yes it's a generality) wants it cheaper, but they dont want it inferior.
A different distribution method is already available, buy gun. Cheap sails, cheap distribution, cheaper materials, why don't they rule the world?

sailquik said..





Actually, I think the example of Gun sails supports the idea that quality things can be less expensive. I don't sail Gun Sails, but I have seen them, looked closely and watched how they performed and lasted, and really, I don't see that they are any lesser quality, or use cheaper materials than almost all other sails on the market. They may not be quite as fashionable, but that is not the same thing as quality. And many props automatically equate expensive with quality, which is completely WRONG! Yes, some things ARE expensive because they do cost a lot more to make, but that is not always the case, and very often it is not. It's just marketing, and a lot of people fall for it.

There is a saying: "You get what you pay for" Implying that the more you pay, the more you get.

But my life experience is very different. My version is " You pay for what you get" and it has nothing much to do with quality a lot of the time. Some time I have bought things for a very attractive price that have turn out to the the best I have ever had, or at least as good as others much more expensive.



In other words, the Gun selling model may be the way forward for other manufacturers to significantly reduce their prices and STILL offer very good quality. (as others have suggested).

In any case, my limited experience with sailmaking tells me that the cost of the materials in a sail is only a very tiny proportion of the cost of making and selling a sail. Negligible really.