MarkSSC said..

LeeD said..
Depends on your skill.
A top race car driver pushes his race car to the limit.
You drive his car 10 seconds a lap slower.
But you can drive a detuned race car faster than you can drive a pro's car.

I think I read about a race where a professional (Guy Cribb) used a freeride board against other riders using slalom boards. Not sure who won but Cribb did prove on the day that his skill was the difference because even with the freeride board he was able to mix it with the guys with specialised gear. Moral of the story...if you want to go fast, improve your skills.

I recall that one. I wasn't in the top 10.
www.facebook.com/jpaustralia/posts/guy-cribb-is-surprised-that-his-magic-ride-118-turns-out-to-be-a-performance-boa/1060314483994477/

Wasn't just any old board though. It was a Magic Ride.

Ian K said..

MarkSSC said..

LeeD said..
Depends on your skill.
A top race car driver pushes his race car to the limit.
You drive his car 10 seconds a lap slower.
But you can drive a detuned race car faster than you can drive a pro's car

I think I read about a race where a professional (Guy Cribb) used a freeride board aganst other riders using slalom boards. Not sure who won but Cribb did prove on the day that his skill was the difference because even with the freeride board he was able to mix it with the guys with specialised gear. Moral of the story...if you want to go fast, improve your skills.

I recall that one. I wasn't in the top 10.
www.facebook.com/jpaustralia/posts/guy-cribb-is-surprised-that-his-magic-ride-118-turns-out-to-be-a-performance-boa/1060314483994477/

Wasn't just any old board though. It was a Magic Ride.

As he says "some good tactics, speed and gybes". Some of my best results in the local slalom series were on a FSW board! Overpowered 5.0 conditions, Crissy Field crazy chop, and no wind holes over the race course and I was leaving people out by the handful in the jibes ...

This discussion sounds like an old one about RAF vs CAM sails. I remember when the Sailworks Retro first came out ages ago. Bruce Peterson being very happy because he finished top ten in a course race up in the Gorge ... Fast forward many years and personally I have seen no difference in top speed with my Point-7 ACX (RAF) vs Hot sail Maui GPS (CAM) and I am pretty sure that if I was still slalom racing being on an ACX and a freerace board would actually improve my results in 6.0-7.5 conditions!

From what ive seen, in a steady constant breeze a no cam can be just as fast In a straight line as a cambered race sail in the right hands. Its when you sail into a lull, or the void on the other side of a gybe mark that it lets you down.


What a cambered race sail has is stability. A no cam closes up when theres no wind to fill it.

sailquik said..

duzzi said..
This discussion sounds like an old one about RAF vs CAM sails. I remember when the Sailworks Retro first came out ages ago. Bruce Peterson being very happy because he finished top ten in a course race up in the Gorge ... Fast forward many years and personally I have seen no difference in top speed with my Point-7 ACX (RAF) vs Hot sail Maui GPS (CAM) and I am pretty sure that if I was still slalom racing being on an ACX and a freerace board would actually improve my results in 6.0-7.5 condition

Yep. Thats why all the pro racers dont use cammed sails and use freeride boards.

Of course not, but there is a big difference between a race at the pro level, where a handful of seconds are the difference between winning and loosing, and racing at the local level where easier equipment can and will give you an edge in challenging situations.

I spent roughly 25 years on cambered sails and the Point-7 ACX is quite exceptional when it comes to stability and speed when overpowered. So especially when going around the pond I am not exactly sure what a fully cambered sail will get you. Yes, when under powered a cammed sail might have a bit of an edge, although I am not sure that would be the case for a full on race sail of equal size ... they are built to be sailed overpowered ...

Anyway going back to freerace boards ... my Futura 71 apparently sunk! It was in one of the 2000 plus containers lost at see by this ship: gcaptain.com/one-apus-update-new-details-on-dangerous-goods-cargo/

Back to the drawing board ... I might go custom and get a Flikka Slalom. A 95x61 and 110x71 should fit my slalom needs.

Yeah, like the range of RDM Loft 3cam, but like the powerband of SDM better.
In rough water where I sail, fast freeride is faster, at my level, than pure slalom unless you"re talking Exocet ot Tabou.
In flat water, slalom is unsurpassed.
Racing, for sure slalom.
But freesail, where you get to choose when and where to jibe, Fast Freeride for me every time.

A container full of windsurfing boards would never sink unles it split open and lost it's cargo. It would be interesting to be there when it washes up on a beach somewhere.

It's bad enough when keelboat yachts hit a floating container! imagine what happens when one of those new superfast foiling yachts hits one at 35 knots or more! That fad might not last very long...........

sailquik said..
A container full of windsurfing boards would never sink unles it split open and lost it's cargo. It would be interesting to be there when it washes up on a beach somewhere.

That is good news! I finally have a reason to buy a sailboat and go look for "my" container!!!!!!

JonesySail said..

sailquik said..

duzzi said..
This discussion sounds like an old one about RAF vs CAM sails. I remember when the Sailworks Retro first came out ages ago. Bruce Peterson being very happy because he finished top ten in a course race up in the Gorge ... Fast forward many years and personally I have seen no difference in top speed with my Point-7 ACX (RAF) vs Hot sail Maui GPS (CAM) and I am pretty sure that if I was still slalom racing being on an ACX and a freerace board would actually improve my results in 6.0-7.5 conditions!

Yep. Thats why all the pro racers dont use cammed sails and use freeride boards.

Pro sailors are physical beasts , you're talking about full time athletes , that power squat insane weight routines to hold down big boards and sails , guys that weigh on average 95-100kg of 'muscle' , that's why they can do what they do, and keep in mind they only do that for about 4 minutes at a time ....

Too many sailors get to wrapped up in the gear making all the difference, it makes a difference yes, but only if you have the 'skills' and 'strength' , the average Seabreeze.com windsurfer is a long way off a PWA sailor , the difference is massive , just because they do, doesn't mean that everyone else 'should'.

8/10 times most 'average' sailors would have more fun and be just as quick if not quicker on FR gear, easier rigging , more durable, cheaper,
after all if that wasn't so, why would they bother to design make and sell FR gear?!

I'm seeing a lot of new red fox's on the water round these parts, and the owners all were on slalom boards previously, and a lot of Overdrives over reflexes ....

Thought you were talking about me

JonesySail said..
Pro sailors are physical beasts , you're talking about full time athletes , that power squat insane weight routines to hold down big boards and sails , guys that weigh on average 95-100kg of 'muscle' , that's why they can do what they do, and keep in mind they only do that for about 4 minutes at a time ....

Too many sailors get to wrapped up in the gear making all the difference, it makes a difference yes, but only if you have the 'skills' and 'strength' , the average Seabreeze.com windsurfer is a long way off a PWA sailor , the difference is massive , just because they do, doesn't mean that everyone else 'should'.

8/10 times most 'average' sailors would have more fun and be just as quick if not quicker on FR gear, easier rigging , more durable, cheaper,
after all if that wasn't so, why would they bother to design make and sell FR gear?!

I'm seeing a lot of new red fox's on the water round these parts, and the owners all were on slalom boards previously, and a lot of Overdrives over reflexes ....

That is very true. Pro sailors are very fit and strong like all top athletes.

But when to comes to highest speeds, gear does make a difference. A very real difference. It just depends whether you want to go as fast as possible, or are content to just go 'fast'ish'. For many recreational sailors, they are not in a race and often dont have any way to measure they speed except by the thrill factor which is highly subjective. Hey! If you are having a blast of fun, who cares about the actual numbers?! Other factors certainly come into play, like cost, lightweight, easy sailing transitions, easy waterstarts, simplicity. Some, or all of those things can definitely enhance your enjoyment overall, but that does not mean you are faster, or even as fast. So no, just because racers and speed sailors use more specialised and faster cambered sails, does not mean everyone should. But if you are chasing numbers on a GPS, or want to beat someone in a race, or just see how fast you can personally go, using the fastest gear combination possible, and learning how to tune it to get the best out of it, is a no brainer.

So to correct your quote: "8/10 times most 'average' sailors would have as much, or more fun and be just not quite as fast- like 8 /10 times as fast, on FR gear, easier rigging , more durable, cheaper, and it would not decrease their enjoyment at all
This is why they design make and sell FR gear?! "

And the observation in your last paragraph completely supports this.

That is not to say that it is wrong that many people may go as fast, or even faster, on fast freeride gear, or even wave gear in certain difficult circumstances like rough or choppy water, or gusty inconsistent winds, big seas, maybe because they are not a 'beast' or are not as highly skilled, or just prefer a safer ride.

But you don't always have to be a 'beast' or super skilled, or even young and fit to go faster (if you really want to) by using "faster" gear. There are plenty of flat water venues where, is you really want to, even little old Septuagenarians can take advantage of modern cambered sails and fast boards and go faster than they otherwise would. It all depends on how much 'investment' you are willing to put into it. Do you want easy fun, or do you want that last ounce of outright SPEED! Your choice. And I for one am not going to think any less of someone for whatever choice they make.

firiebob said..

Wasn't me

Or me.

SchobiHH said..
The fun from windsurfing doesn't come from checking your GPS at the end of the day. Why are people so concerned about it?

The fun for many does come with checking their GPS - ha,ha.

Never understood it myself but each to their own.

I like challenging myself against others but not in flat water as its not challenging enough.

Today the water on the Swan River was flattish near the shore but out in the middle is was super challenging rough as guts and the wind was around 25 knots.

I was on a 5.8m and 31 cm Tribal Speed Weed and without the added control a weed fin brings i would have been way more out of control and for sure going slower.

Two bigger guys overtook me but only just

Makes you feel alive sailing in those conditions.