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General Gear Reviews Newbies The Hookup Foiling Lost & Found WA NSW QLD SA VIC TAS

waveslave

4263 posts

waveslave

WA, 4263 posts

27 Mar 2006 10:47am

quote:
Originally posted by silviu

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Plow

If you kite 5-7km out then you had better be a damn good swimmer.

That is possibly the most dumb, irresponsible move I have heard of.

Where is your support? What happens if your leading edge deflates/pops?

Yet another hero giving kiting a great rap....seriously mate - its not impressive, just mid numbingly stupid.

Mr Plow

I am kitesurfing ALWAYS with:
GPS.
Mobile phone.
Someone knows always where I am going, and when I do expect to come back
If possible in pair with somone else
And don't forget, I am doing this only in the Port Phillip Bay, so, if I cant go back... I always get to a safe shore from where I can be picked up.
Before going to the beach:
Check the latest forcast on Bureau of Meteorology website.
Check the Bay wind Website.
Check the sky!
I wear always:
Helmet
Long wetsuit
PFD/impact vest
Booties
Generaly:
Never jump near the beach
Keep a safe distance from stupids
I rather go 100 m downwind to land my kite, than to land it on a crowded beach
I am a good friend of the Life Saving Club
never kite on a beach I don't know, unless I am getting some advice from the locals.
And the list is longer and longer.
And by the way, yes I am a bloddy good swimmer, and I know very well most of the self rescue techniques.
So before judging, and insulting, get all the facts!!!

What, no EPIRB and flares ??

Yeah, truss up with all the 'safety' gear and then go and launch and land next to the rocks and carpark.
LOL
The beach is where all the sh1t happens.

bondo

QLD

699 posts

bondo

QLD, 699 posts

27 Mar 2006 12:59pm

you should also carry a life jacket, arm floaties and sufficient vacuum packed food for a week at sea at all times.

and a whistle

azza

1338 posts

azza

1338 posts

27 Mar 2006 11:37am

wow. I had wondered what was shoved in the front of Silviu's wetsuit... no wonder it looks so well packed around the waistline! And here I was thinking that he just loved Melbourne for the meat-pies and beer.

silviu

VIC

663 posts

silviu

VIC, 663 posts

27 Mar 2006 3:08pm

quote:
Originally posted by azza

wow. I had wondered what was shoved in the front of Silviu's wetsuit... no wonder it looks so well packed around the waistline! And here I was thinking that he just loved Melbourne for the meat-pies and beer.

I have to admit, there is a"littlebit of sunken chest" but I am working on it!!!

azza

1338 posts

azza

1338 posts

27 Mar 2006 1:28pm

Pirates treasure Me hearty!

Pieces of eight... pieces of eight!!

Mr Plow

VIC

428 posts

Mr Plow

VIC, 428 posts

27 Mar 2006 4:42pm

Hey Silviu,

Had a mate who disappeared while windsurfing in the bay a few years ago...he was also "totally competent".

Rescue boys went looking for him - but couldnt find him - he was found washed up on a bay beach the next morning with advanced hypothermia.

I reckon a windsurfer has significantly less to go wrong with it than kite gear.

I think that if you are going to partake in such "extreme" activities - you shouldnt rely on the local support - organise your own support boat...& if you cant...then don't go. I am sure the rescue boys have better things to do with their time...besides which - whilst rescuing you - that kinda precludes them rescuing anyone else.

kiterpilot

249 posts

kiterpilot

WA, 249 posts

27 Mar 2006 1:47pm

I dont kite out further than I can be phuked swimming in... No amount of gear is worth orphaning my daughters...

silviu

VIC

663 posts

silviu

VIC, 663 posts

27 Mar 2006 5:00pm

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Plow

Hey Silviu,

Had a mate who disappeared while windsurfing in the bay a few years ago...he was also "totally competent".

Rescue boys went looking for him - but couldnt find him - he was found washed up on a bay beach the next morning with advanced hypothermia.

I reckon a windsurfer has significantly less to go wrong with it than kite gear.

I think that if you are going to partake in such "extreme" activities - you shouldnt rely on the local support - organise your own support boat...& if you cant...then don't go. I am sure the rescue boys have better things to do with their time...besides which - whilst rescuing you - that kinda precludes them rescuing anyone else.

Hi
Thanks for the advice; it is a point should be taken in consideration!
However, like any other adventure sport, (se I am not naming it extreme - my opinion is that the sport is as extreme as we are making it!!!), there is a level of risk involved (like in rock-climbing, mountain cycling, dirt biking). As long as, this risk is assessed and mitigated, and the athlete is aware of the risks, I would say it is OK. All of us we need our adrenaline rush - you guys are getting it with your jumps, I get it from cruising.
Accidents may happen, (and I had one or two during these years), but my training and awareness of self rescue techniques, and the fact that I always have full equipment on me helped to overcome the difficulties.
I am not saying, by any means that anybody should follow me, or do what I am doing, as I said before it is a matter of personal choice.
However your previous post is one that I will take on board and whenever will be possible to have a boat as a back-up, I will.

Thanks.

silviu

VIC

663 posts

silviu

VIC, 663 posts

27 Mar 2006 5:03pm

quote:
Originally posted by kiterpilot

I dont kite out further than I can be phuked swimming in... No amount of gear is worth orphaning my daughters...

Well done Rob. As I said before, all this is a matter of personal choice, and I dont see anithyng wrong with this.

Mr Plow

VIC

428 posts

Mr Plow

VIC, 428 posts

27 Mar 2006 5:07pm

quote:
Originally posted by kiterpilot

I dont kite out further than I can be phuked swimming in... No amount of gear is worth orphaning my daughters...

Ditto...

I had an "equipment malfunction" i.e. snapped chicken loop at at Pt Douglas last year & was about 400m offshore...it was the longest swim in of my life...luckily it wasnt croc or stinger season...but it is always bull shark season.

5MeterDave

2 posts

5MeterDave

2 posts

27 Mar 2006 4:10pm

As a so called Pole Dancer I am victim to a board left in the water. Thanks for the wrecked $2000 board. I am happy seeing people out enjoying the water in any form and don't have anything personally against any sport. But being out on the water is also about consideration of others around you. The problem of free floating boards left in the Middle Park Bay is a real problem as several friends have had boards damaged ( badly ) hitting boards floating just under the water. I have brought in about a dozen in the last twelve months, unfortunately the last one had components speared into the bottom of my board.

If you don't leave your board more than 3 meters from you then fine, but if there is a chance it can get away during a boost then wear a leash.
Why do surfers wear leashes ?
- To stop the board washing in and hitting others, not just to retrieve the board. Sure the risk it can hit you exists but you have to live with that. If you want to understand go and surf with a group and tell them you are not wearing a leash. Same goes with snowboards.

It's called consideration for others around you.

As for blaming Newbies ! Give some respect to people of your own sport. They are Kitesurfers too. Please don't turn on your own. How about some giving some advice rather than criticism.

Get out and enjoy.

Five Meter Dave

waveslave

4263 posts

waveslave

WA, 4263 posts

27 Mar 2006 4:35pm

quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

Which beaches closed because of board leashes.???
Where are the dead people because of board leashes???
Where are the loads of people in wheelchairs from leash caused injuries???
Talk about a load of drivel.

Begginers can make good use of a board leash - provided they fit a weak link to it, stop the BS!

We have seen heaps of begginers progress sooner because they are not phaffing around trying to get back to the board all the time, often spending more than 50-80% of a session trying to get their board or losing it!!!

Whats so complicated about wearing the appropriate protective gear, and then tying a piece of 100 - 150 lb dacron line between the board and the leash??

I agree that once a person is beyond getting on the board and riding upwind, they should ditch the leash, most of the time. If the winds are light and body dragging is marginal the leash is needed, same with tides and currents. Same with people who just cruise. Not recommended in waves at all.

Straight out closed minded no, no no is just silly, remember what it was like to learn???

We never recommend stretchy surfboard straight or coiled leashes though, only the webbing type reel leashes, fitted with a weak link.
~~http://www.kitepower.com.au/catalog/product_16636_NSI_Improved_Reel_Leash_cat_275.html~~

Think of it like a fuse in an electrical circuit, sure electricity can kill you, no reason to ban it though.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

Steve,
I'm shocked !

A kite dealer publicly encouraging the use of board leashes ?
(Disclaimer: Provided a weak link is fitted) LOL.
Bad habits are hard to break.

Are you saying it's justified to attach a newbie to a swinging out-of-control sharp meat cleaver.....
because they progre$$ more quickly ??????
"It's OK, it's got a weak link". LOL

Yeah, who wants to volunteer to test out the weak link ?
Anybody, anyone ?
"Go on newb, crash yourself bigtime. It's OK pussie, you're wearing a helmet" !

It's OK to play with the poisonous snake, here's some antivenene. LOL

Body-dragging is a fundamental move learnt very early during the teaching process.
Board-riding is the next stage after body-dragging has been mastered.

Body-dragging is bodysurfing kitestyle.

Regards,
slave.

silviu

VIC

663 posts

silviu

VIC, 663 posts

27 Mar 2006 9:47pm

Board-riding is the next stage after body-dragging has been mastered.

Body-dragging is bodysurfing kitestyle.

Yes, offer yourself to the crocs, sharks and stingers.
Not to say anything about light winds....,or when your kite crashed, big time..., your lines are tangled, you have to wind-up, and use your both hands, and ... bye, bye board....and..

This can go on, and on and on, why some people cannot accept the others choices.

Why, on earth, they just have to be right, or righteous.

I respect others decision not to use leashes, that does not men I agree with them.
I make my choices, and I live with them!

All this just started from a simple question: what can we do to mitigate the interference with other water users? If they are windsurfers, or fisherman or swimmers.
So do you have the answer?
Are there only the "newbs" so "reckless" to leave their boards behind?
I don't think so!
I've seen very experienced kiters, caught in gusts, being dragged away, pretty far from their board, just returning to the beach by body dragging and than expecting their board to hit the shore line somewhere downwind. Isn't this "recklessness".
So please, leave the "newbs" alone, they have enough trouble mastering the kite and the board and all the "pro's" advising them what to... and what not to...

waveslave

4263 posts

waveslave

WA, 4263 posts

27 Mar 2006 7:48pm

Dear Silviu,

Hmmmm,
Death by croc or hacked-up by meat cleaver ?
Not an easy choice to make ?

Yeah,
I'd take the meat cleaver too,
leave the fucn leash on, man.

azza

1338 posts

azza

1338 posts

27 Mar 2006 8:06pm

It's still not blowing anywhere is it!?!

Mr Plow

VIC

428 posts

Mr Plow

VIC, 428 posts

28 Mar 2006 7:14am

Todays looking good azza....

...ah thats right - you do that whole work thing dont you

just think - only another 6 weeks to go and I will have to slip out of the wetty and into the monkey suit - can't wait

WRT loose boards at St Kilda - just one more nail in the coffin of why it is a ** spot to kite

Kitepower Australia

NSW

4382 posts

Kitepower Australia

NSW, 4382 posts

28 Mar 2006 9:31am

Steve,
I'm shocked !

A kite dealer publicly encouraging the use of board leashes ?
(Disclaimer: Provided a weak link is fitted) LOL.
Bad habits are hard to break.

Slave thats good, I love to shock and make people think!
Its not a habit, if it is not a dependency. People are smart enough to know when to use a leash or not, and we give users advice on how to do it to minimise the risks. There is still one on the back of my harness, rarely use it, but when I have needed it I'm glad it was there.
I fell in a wave yesterday, feels like I cracked a rib, no leash, still managed to hit my board, made me think about wearing my helmet again though!
Do you wear a helmet when you kite in waves ?

Are you saying it's justified to attach a newbie to a swinging out-of-control sharp meat cleaver.....
because they progre$$ more quickly ??????
"It's OK, it's got a weak link". LOL

Yes I am, but who says he/her is always out of control or cannot assess the risks, make the judgement call himself and take responsibility for his/her own actions???????????
Who are you and the other elitists here to be telling people they cannot make a choice to use a leash??????
It makes sense to fit a weak link, don't knock it.
Don't start on the stupid dollar $hit, noy much happens on this spinning planet without the involvement of the holy buck, I'm just making a living like you do too. Don't be calling the kettle black....

Yeah, who wants to volunteer to test out the weak link ?
Anybody, anyone ?
"Go on newb, crash yourself bigtime. It's OK pussie, you're wearing a helmet" !

It's OK to play with the poisonous snake, here's some antivenene. LOL

People do play with poisonous snakes, you could be killed driving your car, you could break a line mid jump, etc, etc
Whats the point mate, should I go and remove the electricity fuses so I can be a tuff guy like you?????

Body-dragging is a fundamental move learnt very early during the teaching process.
Board-riding is the next stage after body-dragging has been mastered.

Body-dragging is bodysurfing kitestyle.

Agree 110%, we teach this, and implore people to go and and master it, but do they?
Nah, they all want to get one the board asap.
There are many other reasons why people cannot always body drag upwind too, especially as begginners.
An informed person wearing appropriate safety gear can get more board practice time by using a leash. This lessens the time they will be clogging the beach, needing a leash, etc.

Regards,
slave.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

silviu

VIC

663 posts

silviu

VIC, 663 posts

28 Mar 2006 9:58am

OK guys,

Wow, we had a long go on this issue.
It is good!!
No progress is possible without controversy.
In our young sport, we are looking for the good ways, and the fact that only on this thread are so many opinions and discussions, proves that we care, we want it better and the most important is that we love the sport.

Thanks everybody taking the time and effort to debate the issue, I am looking forward to see future developments in the matter.

Goodwinds and be safe on the water

Silviu

Gorgo

VIC

5124 posts

Gorgo

VIC, 5124 posts

28 Mar 2006 12:59pm

My 2 cents.

St Kilda has a specific problem in that it attracts gumbies (both newbies and tricksters) and the shape of the area funnels everybody into the same spot on the inside. The real solution is to ride somewhere else. Riding in close on waves is a little understandable but you don't even get that at St Kilda.

Most lost boards are because you lose sight of it in the swell, or because the rider does not have the skill to drag to it.

Using a fully depowerable kite means you rarely get dragged more than a couple of metres from your board so you don't lose sight of it. Also, you can generally just drop the bar and swim to the kite while the kite hovers depowered in the air or settles on the water in relaunch position.

Manufacturers should make boards with bright coloured fins and straps so the upmost parts of the board are always easily visible. All this yo dude black gangsta or camo colouration on a piece of high performance water craft is just dumb.

Newbies need to be realistic about their skills. If you can't keep hold of your board then a reel leash and helmet are essential.

Wind surfers need to keep an eye out for stuff in the water. While I am sympathetic about your damaged board you really do need to keep an eye on where you are riding and not hit stuff. All of us are water users together and we should be keeping an eye out for each other. I regularly check on downed wind surfers to make sure they are alright.

Wind surfers should also remember that many kiteboarders are ex-hard core windsurfers. It is not appropriate to view kiteboards from an us-them point of view because we were you. We probably know more about sailboarding than you do and can probably still windsurf better than most sailboarders.

kiterpilot

249 posts

kiterpilot

WA, 249 posts

28 Mar 2006 10:45am

what I've learnt in my time in the industry... everyone thinks there own area has a spacific problem that is localized ?, it's not!

Ben De Jonge

819 posts

Ben De Jonge

WA, 819 posts

28 Mar 2006 11:40am

Please, no one repsond to these toopid suggestions about board leashes. We all know they are dumb and dumber.

I can't remember when I last saw a kiter sporting one in WA.

Let em go kite with their 'sminging meat cleavers' (great description slave) if they want to.

And Silviu, shame on you! You backed off the issue when Kite Hard told you you were wrong, and there you go, 2 pages later, defending it again.

5MeterDave

2 posts

5MeterDave

2 posts

28 Mar 2006 12:07pm

New solution as a regular pole dancer.

If I now find a board and no one with in ear shot - I will deem it to be a danger to all water users and will remove it from the water.

If you have lost it you will have to look in the closest beach somewhere between south Melb and Williamstown. Maybe after replacing one or two you will all learn how to be considerate of others around you. Excuses such as - The wind came up and I was over powered, my lines got tangled, kite lost pressure, wind dropped, broke something - don't mean anything.

After checking with Victorian Police - leaving a board unattended in the water in a designated boating area can be considered as neglegent and you can be liable for the damage it causes.

azza

1338 posts

azza

1338 posts

28 Mar 2006 12:19pm

Alkiter is back!
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16856

Your boards are belong to us!

windburn

VIC

37 posts

windburn

VIC, 37 posts

28 Mar 2006 3:23pm

Are you serious 5meterdave. You must be the biggest tool. I often go out and intentionally leave my board in the water so a goose like you can run over it. I would look into the law a bit more closely and stop bending it to suit you, TOOL!

waveslave

4263 posts

waveslave

WA, 4263 posts

28 Mar 2006 12:42pm

Re: Weak link

Am I missing something here ??
Is there a missing link ?

It has been suggested that a board leash fitted with a weak link is OK,
and will save valuable newbie-time and avoid the need for body-dragging after loose boards.

But of course the leash will snap under stress at the weak link,
because that's what it's designed to do.....
separate the meat cleaver from the newbie. LOL

A loose board with a snapped weak link is still a loose board by any other name ?
Somehow, there's no avoiding bodydragging after loose boards.

But hey, it's fun,
it's bodysurfing while flying a kite.

Regards,
slave.

Spacemonkey!

2288 posts

Spacemonkey!

SA, 2288 posts

28 Mar 2006 3:19pm

I don't see the point of a weak link in board leashes. The whole idea is contradictory.

The time when you most need a board leash, i.e get dragged a long way a from it is inevitably after a high impact stack.

You put a weak link in the leash so it snaps leaving the board far behind.

The kook doesn't know how to body drag and retreive his board cause hes used to having a leash and loses his board.

How is this sane? Leashes are dangerous, i used one whislt i was learning, conveinient but risky. That was back in the good ol' days when they used to reccomend leashes tho.

Learn to body drag and you are self sufficient, sure there are easier ways to prevent the board from being lost but when your leash breaks you are phuked.

If your so concerened about beginners losing their boards stick em in a pair of bindings, problem solved. Either that or ride straps and know how to body drag like the other 99% of the kiting population.

Spacemonkey!

2288 posts

Spacemonkey!

SA, 2288 posts

28 Mar 2006 3:22pm

quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

Re: Weak link

it's bodysurfing while flying a kite.

i prefer to call it trawling

silviu

VIC

663 posts

silviu

VIC, 663 posts

28 Mar 2006 4:39pm

quote:
Originally posted by Ben De Jonge

And Silviu, shame on you! You backed off the issue when Kite Hard told you you were wrong, and there you go, 2 pages later, defending it again.

Mea Culpa,(thats my fault) man.
I will go to confess !!!

Ben De Jonge

819 posts

Ben De Jonge

WA, 819 posts

28 Mar 2006 3:41pm

Flaggelate Silviu, it's the only thing that really cleanses a sullied soul.

silviu

VIC

663 posts

silviu

VIC, 663 posts

28 Mar 2006 6:44pm

quote:
Originally posted by Ben De Jonge

Flaggelate Silviu, it's the only thing that really cleanses a sullied soul.

Already done it. But doesn’t help!![}:)]

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Stkilda Problem?

waveslave

bondo

azza

silviu

azza

Mr Plow

kiterpilot

silviu

silviu

Mr Plow

5MeterDave

waveslave

silviu

waveslave

azza

Mr Plow

Kitepower Australia

silviu

Gorgo

kiterpilot

Ben De Jonge

5MeterDave

azza

windburn

waveslave

Spacemonkey!

Spacemonkey!

silviu

Ben De Jonge

silviu

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