scheggia forum posts in last 60 days

Great post! I think it matches fairly well the feeling on the bigger size. I hope on day to be able to test the smaller sizes in a nuking day… they should be heaps of fun

and thanks for the shoutout 🤙

BWalnut said..
Low end difference fairly well expected. Ranges are quite different on them.

PRv2 published range covers maybe 7-8 knots?:


LTX published range covers maybe 13 knots?:

Declared ranges are always a bit tricky, especially at the lower end. There are just too many variables. My low end with the same parawing can change by 3–4 knots just by switching to my downwind board, and there's at least another couple of knots of difference between my bigger and smaller foils. I mean, with the LTX 5.5 I can take off in 10 knots with my DW board and the 1130S, but I'll need around 15 knots with my mid-length and the 850S.

Jve said..
You didn't talk much about wind range. Approximately what would you think your comfortable wind range would be with these?

With the LTX I'm comfortable from around 10kts (dw board and 1130S foil) to around 25. The PRv2 was borrowed from a friend and tested 3 sessions from around 12 kts to 15-17. Always with my mid length. I think I can easily make it fly in less than 10 kts with my dw board, and at 17 I was feeling kind of far from his top end. I think with the PRv2 5.7 compared to the LTX 5.5 you gain a 1-2 kts on the low end and you loose 3-4 kts in the top end.

Pacoo said..
At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

For sure, you can be on a 5.0 or a 4.3, but you'll pay for it in VMG and probably need to be on a bigger foil too (I was on the 850S). Furthermore, if I had used a smaller PR, I'm sure someone here would say I'm not even comparing the right sizes because I'm on a 5.5 LTX... 😅

AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..
Finally finished editing my back-to-back comparison of the 777 LTX 5.5 and Ozone Pocket Rocket V2 5.7. I tested them in around 15 kts, right in the Pocket Rocket’s range and at the lower end of the LTX’s. I originally went into the comparison focused mainly on upwind performance, but after going through the GPS data and switching between them, I realised the more interesting discussion was actually happening elsewhere. In my opinion, for a big parawing, packability and the whole stow/redeploy workflow can be just as important as pure upwind performance — especially when doing laps and repeated downwind runs. I’ve included GPS analysis, handling impressions, and a side-by-side look at packing/stowing in the video. Curious what you prioritize more in a big parawing: pure flying performance or how easy it is to get it out of the way once you’re on foil?

Scheggia it sounds like your trying to convince yourself your happy with your 777's despite what you have experienced.

There is one thing that does stand out to me in your dialog and that is the bar pressure. It scares me when you describe the V2 as light and the LTX as heavier. The V2 has what I would call very heavy bar pressure when correctly powered and pushing hard to the point i can barely hold the things when not in the harness. It makes no sense and if the LTX is noticeably heavier?
The V1 has significantly less bar pressure. I sort of feel like the bar pressure on the V2 is so high that its hard to imagine a beginner trying to manage it without the skill to get straight into the harness unless using a V2 well into the bottom half of its wind range.

First of all, I totally agree that the bar pressure on the PR V1 was lower than on the V2, and with the V1 you could easily sail without a harness.
I think because of the way the 777s are designed, they pull more like a windsurf sail, where you can hang your weight on the harness and sheet in and out by pivoting around it. In terms of pure pull on the bar, when sailing without a harness, I think the LTX pulls harder than the PR V2. You can sail the PR V2 comfortably from the A-lines and the residual pull isn’t that crazy.
However, whenever I test something, I always ask myself one question: would I replace what I already have with what I’ve just tried?
And this time the answer was a clear NO, mostly because of the packing. In this size, the PR is just a nightmare to pack and stow. There are so many lines and so much canopy flying around that it makes the whole process unnecessarily complicated.
Maybe in the smaller sizes it isn’t nearly as much of an issue.

Finally finished editing my back-to-back comparison of the 777 LTX 5.5 and Ozone Pocket Rocket V2 5.7. I tested them in around 15 kts, right in the Pocket Rocket’s range and at the lower end of the LTX’s. I originally went into the comparison focused mainly on upwind performance, but after going through the GPS data and switching between them, I realised the more interesting discussion was actually happening elsewhere. In my opinion, for a big parawing, packability and the whole stow/redeploy workflow can be just as important as pure upwind performance — especially when doing laps and repeated downwind runs. I’ve included GPS analysis, handling impressions, and a side-by-side look at packing/stowing in the video. Curious what you prioritize more in a big parawing: pure flying performance or how easy it is to get it out of the way once you’re on foil?

Sheps said..

AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..
Finally, I've been able to end my LTX 5.5 review. Check it out and let me know what do you guys think!!

Cheers

-LCCRJUx39ZOOH3

Very nice.

Seriously though, the PR V2 5m is hard to beat for upwind in light wind. I really like the hybrids going smaller in size and I can imagine the double skins in the tiny sizes wound likely be the stand out in super high winds but I haven’t tried. As an anomaly, I really enjoy the odd session on the. BRM Ka’a 2.3m. So no explanation for all, just having fun I guess.

I've done a back-to-back comparison between the LTX 5.5 and the PR V2, and their upwind performance is very similar. The LTX is slightly better, but not by much. (Video with way too much data nerding coming as soon as I find the time to edit it. 😅)
Now, packing the PR 5.7... it practically takes two people. The lines are so long, and it packs down into this huge bundle. It gives me the exact same feeling as trying to fold a fitted mattress protector—so annoying.

I've used a lot the 720S and the 810X. For me those are comparable in terms of low end. The big difference in between these two is that the X has a lot less front foot pressure, it turns with a lot less drive and in a smaller radius. The 720S has more glide. They pump almost the same, maybe the 810X a touch better, but not by a lot. I can imagine the 700X will be somehow closer in terms of low end and "pumpability" to something in between the 500S and the 615S. Saying that I'm almost 100% sure that the 700X is a lot more surfy and not even near in glide to the 720S. It's somehow 2 steps down in size

I come from SUP downwind and, in my opinion, relying on your parawing usually just means you're not relying on your downwind skills. You already have more than enough ability to keep going well beyond those 8 minutes in the clip. You're not gassed, you're still able to talk, and the conditions look more than good enough for an hour-long run. Just keep going. Do more and longer runs, and focus on improving your reading of the bumps. Eventually you'll reach the point where you never have to stop unless you actually want to. Once you're able to stay on foil continuously for longer periods, your skills improve incredibly fast. And once you've built that foundation, you can always go back to doing shorter runs or laps if that's what you enjoy more. But if your goal is to become a better foiler, I'd spend that time working on your downwind skills. In my experience, nothing teaches you more about foiling than downwinding.

AnyBoard said..

BWalnut said..
7.5 vmg with the 3.1 and 720 today which surprised me. So... VMG feels a bit unreliable for me, at least in the spots I ride. The 3.1m LTX ate up gusts today that people on 2.1m sails said were too much. Really happy with it. Going to try to focus on the review and getting that wrapped up ASAP.

It would be great to get to the bottom of what PW's pull what angles.

So far I have heard that the PT skin is not as good upwind as a v1 PR. I have seen pretty good angles posted by frigate riders. It now seems the LTX is not as good either but I do appreciate they have a wider range and provide a lot more comfort going upwind. I have seen some extraordinary angles from foilers on the BRM double but although I hear good things about the Hybrid 777 upwind I haven't seen anyone posting great angles for them either.

All this tells me that much better is possible from a new hybrid or double in the near future. Maybe PPC or maybe the new afterburner will break the single skin rules when it comes to VMG or upwind angles.

you can check this out! I'm working right now on a series of videos with the LTX.... but in general LTX is slightly worse than the Hybrid, at least at the top end. LTX is slightly better (not by much really) of the Ozone PR V2....

hudijudi said..

scheggia said..
I'm just under 70 kg. I don't know if you'd consider that light, but I've had my LTX 5.5 flying pretty well in anything from 10 to 25 knots. Under 10 is when it starts to get a bit problematic, but honestly, below 10 knots I'd rather do something else than parawing anyway. On top of that, I prefer having a full quiver of hybrids so the handling stays consistent across all my parawings. I came from a 5.4 single-skin and a 4.3 Hybrid. The 5.4 was the parawing I used the most because conditions where I live tend to be on the lighter side. Every time I switched to the 4.3, I needed some time to adjust my handling. Now, with the LTX as my big wing, I can switch between wings without any real adjustment time. And at the other end of the range, I can take the 4.3 out in 30+ knots without any problem. For me, having similar handling across the whole quiver is worth much more than squeezing out a little extra low-end from the biggest size.

Do you have experience with the 3.1 hybrid as well? What is the range for you on the hybrids? I was not aware that the 4.3 was able to go up to 30+

No, my smallest hybrid is the 4.3. We almost never have 30+ kts days where I leave and if I have a nuking day I'll just go SUP downwind. Ranges are huge. I'm confortable eith the LTX 5.5 from 10 to 25 kts and with the Hybrid 4.3 from 15 to 30. Reality is that when it's around 18 I switch to the Hybrid.

BWalnut said..
Saw this for sale posting and thought it was interesting.

Selling the hybrid and keeping the orbit:

“Triple Seven 777 Hybrid 4.3 Parawing
Used a couple of times. I bought this and the PPC Orbit 4.5 to compare. I’m keeping the Orbit for my intended usage: very long upwind commutes in La Ventana. The Hybrid is easier to get on foil and pulls hard and fast upwind. The PPC may point a touch higher, its pull is softer. The Hybrid packs away significantly better, but I have a Power Pack 4.3 that already works great for short laps on the river.“

Cool, from what he's saying I'm happy to keep my hybrids!!

I don't think I can post the link here, but if anyone's interested, I've put together a small Google Form where you can upload your GPX track and I can analyze upwind performances and compare different parawings along the way.

You can DM me on instagram (@scheggia5071) or facebook (Andrea Marzeddu) and I can pass you the link there.

Got my first session on the LTX 5.5 yesterday in super marginal wind—starting just under 10 knots and dropping to around 5 by the end. Big swim back home coming!
Setup was an 8'0" × 16 3/4" (103 L) downwind board with a 1130S. One thing that really surprised me was the low end. I expected to lose a couple of knots compared to the Skin, but that honestly didn't seem to be the case. What did change dramatically was the handling. In marginal wind you really have to change the way you fly the wing. You can't really get away with flying it on the A-lines like you can with a single skin—you need to keep tension through all the lines. If you let it fly on the A-lines while underpowered, it'll do that characteristic downloop that most hybrids seem prone to. The sea was a complete mess, with leftover swell and tiny wind chop coming from different directions. I was honestly surprised I could keep it flying at all. I had assumed that 10 knots was about the bare minimum for this wing, so it exceeded my expectations. Eventually the wind kept fading. I fell during a jibe, the wing got wet, and with what I'd guess was around 6–8 knots left there was simply no way to relaunch it. That meant a long swim back to shore with the parawing packed in the pouch. It was definitely a tough session—I probably wouldn't even have gone out if I hadn't had a new toy to test—but it taught me quite a bit. My first impression is that hybrids, especially in this size and when underpowered, demand a different level of bar handling. They don't tolerate distractions the way a single skin does. The more I ride it, the more I think that if you decide to go the "hybrid route," it probably makes sense to build your whole quiver around them. The steering inputs are different enough that I think muscle memory becomes a big advantage. Now I just need this stubborn high-pressure system over Spain to disappear so we can get our normal thermal winds back. I'm really looking forward to trying it in proper conditions.

I'm 170 cm and 70 kg and ride mostly in ****ty condition with biggish parawings. I'm in love the 777 5.4 PT-Skin, I can do anything with it and the range is really good for a single skin. With a DW board I can get it going in 8 kts and I can sail it comfortably in 18-20 kts. I can tack, downloop, handlepass and stow it without any problem. I'm the biggest advocate for big parawings and I was thinking that I would've hate them... Just placed an order for a 777 5.5 LTX, can wait to try this one and compare it with the 5.4 Skin, because it looks like the best of both worlds, but I'm a little scared of losing low end, and I have plenty of days in the 10kts range....

Youngbreezy said..
Great feedback Doug and scheggia, when I replace my 5.4 pt skin I am thinking of either the 5.5 ltx or 5.7 PRv2.


Doug how does the 5.7 PRv2 pack down, can you squeeze it into a stash belt? What is your low end on it?


Scheggia how is the low end on the 5.5 ltx vs the 5.4 pt skin? Is the ltx much better upwind? Does it pack down easier and better ?

Still didn't received the LTX 5.5, but tried the 5.7 Hybrid. With the hybrid you lose a couple of knots on the low end in comparison to the Skin, I hope to cut that in half with the 5.5 LTX and still make it going in just under 10kts. Upwind for the hybrid (and I think it will be very similar for the LTX) is just another world. I also like more the packing of the hybrid than the skin, less structure. With the LTX lines will also be 15cm shorter so I think (hope) also for that will be better.... The only downside of the hybrids is where is very low and taking they tends to "flips under you" but that behavior disappear as soon as there's a little bit of pull on the PW