Had my first go on the Orbit 3.5m.

I have an upwind that is kind of a benchmark. It’s about 12 minutes every time. A little more or a little less depending on the wind, sail and foil.
First try on the orbit: 7:51

It's not perfect. I have some things to sort out with it. However, that level of improvement on upwind is something that cannot be ignored.

BWalnut said..
Had my first go on the Orbit 3.5m.

I have an upwind that is kind of a benchmark. It’s about 12 minutes every time. A little more or a little less depending on the wind, sail and foil.
First try on the orbit: 7:51

It's not perfect. I have some things to sort out with it. However, that level of improvement on upwind is something that cannot be ignored.

Would love to put my hands on that gpx file 😉😉😉😉

BWalnut said..
Had my first go on the Orbit 3.5m.

I have an upwind that is kind of a benchmark. It’s about 12 minutes every time. A little more or a little less depending on the wind, sail and foil.
First try on the orbit: 7:51

It's not perfect. I have some things to sort out with it. However, that level of improvement on upwind is something that cannot be ignored.

BWalnut said..
Few more sessions on the Orbit. Here's some running pros and cons:

Pros
-The upwind is extremely good, very fast with great angles.
- The cleat works, it's great at increasing power. I don't have as much trouble with backstalling as some people do, I think it's pretty easy to manage with water starts. Dramatic low end improvements with it.
- It's a monumental double skin breakthrough for ease of water start vs something like a Paia. It launches very easily.
- Draining the water out of it when swamped is easy and fast. Nothing to be intimidated about here.

Cons
- It's not very playful. This seems like an upwind machine that you should really pack away for long runs.
- The lines are psycho sharp. When the wind increases it's incredibly difficult to retract because of this. My first sessions came to an end because I couldn't retract it. I have to wear gloves when using it, which solves the issue. I have been told the newest shipments of these have updated lines, but they may need yet another update. (my order shows up soon and I'll report back on it then).
- So far, it doesn't feel like a top end specialist.

I've been riding in horribly gusty winds for most of this testing and I'd say that in those conditions, it might not be the best choice. However, when the wind is steady and you can trim it to the right spot, the performance gains are very obvious. After 4-5 sessions I think I would say I want 4-5 more sessions in good wind to fully evaluate it. So, if you're buying, give it at least 10 sessions before you start making up your mind on it.

Appreciate the update. If you could help with the below it would be great thanks.
What winds ranges do you think it might suit you for?
It sounds like you are leaving some trim on when riding or do you mean because its so gusty its hard to know where to set the trim for the water start?
How does the upwind riding comfort compare to say a pocket rocket, an LTX, a Hybrid and a Piaia? Does it provide more comfort than the afterburner?

What wind ranges?
Upper teens to 30 knots at the moment. The main thing limiting the top end at the moment is actually the lines for me.

Leaving trim on?
When you get up on foil it's exactly like the Paia where you can tell there's very little wind in the sail if underpowered. Pull a little trim and the bar pressure increases and you can lean back and crank upwind. It feels like, at least to me, that the trim is something to actively interact with in the Gorge. Places with steady wind might not need to manage this.

Upwind comfort vs competition?
Pocket rocket is no longer even in the discussion for upwind comfort. Orbit may be the best. Paia/Hybrid top tier, LTX just a sliver behind. No plans to try the Afterburner.

Sharp lines?
To honestly evaluate the lines riders need to be on the water and nearing the stated top end of the wind range. I had zero issues with the 3.5 at 20-25 knots but when the wind came up and I thought "Oh hell yes this is going to be so f'ing sick!!!!" My session came to an abrupt halt due to the lines. I don't know if it's the blue A-lines, the outer A-lines, or the final A-lines that connect to the canopy but when you are retracting and the high aspect ratio canopy reaches a vector pull on the lines it slices me. Friends have stopped trying to do full retracts without gloves. They pull halfway, then reach up and grab the canopy. Again, this is a known issue, PPC shipped an unknown number of first run Orbits out with the original lines. It seems like the second run lines have been updated and direct from them: "The lines have been beefed up slightly. With this update, we haven't affected performance. But from current reviews, we are looking at playing around with line weight to help with the A lines."

Here's where my blue A-lines switch to red and reach the canopy. You can see they get very thin:

slashdotdash said..

BWalnut said..
Here's where my blue A-lines switch to red and reach the canopy.

I have the same blue A lines connecting to the thinner red lines before the canopy on my Orbit. Hopefully it won't be a huge issue for me as I always wear gloves when riding.

Oh yeah you’re gold then. Just enjoy the insane upwind performance! Looking forward to your first session thoughts.

CFL Foiler said..
I thought one of the major benefits of double skins was increased range to handle gusty conditions. Surprised that the Orbit is not the ideal use case

Well, still gotta remember this is early discussion, not yet conclusions on the Orbit. The cleat and trim system alters the behavior of a traditional double skin system. They’ve managed to make a double skin crazy easy to use, but then I’m seeing some potential tradeoffs. So, don’t think of anything I’m saying as hard conclusions, just open discussions.

I can see double pulling the Ozone stuff. Other brands though, they do great on single pulls. Hoping to ride the 3.5m and 2.7m at my favorite spot tomorrow. That really will be the best test for them to see how good they are.

My new ones, with updated lines, look exactly the same on land. Maybe they will feel different on the water but I'm prepared with gloves. Fingers crossed and super hopeful for an epic day tomorrow. If these do as well or better than the previous marginal test days I'm going to be beyond stoked.

2.7m Orbit Day:

Upwind/Downwind ratio was 1:1 when the wind was steady on m y first lap (10 down 10 up). 1:1.6 when it was gusting/holy (8 down 13 up). The 2.7 is DRAMATICALLY more fun than the 3.5m.

I sold both my 2.7m and 3.5m Orbits after this session. Mulling over if I should do a "First Turns" post on my site or just some thoughts here in the forum but plain and simple I, personally, just love the 777 experience. My LTX isn't as fast upwind, never has been never will be. But, I ordered a 2.5m Hybrid last night and plan for that to be my extreme wind choice moving forward. The 3.1m LTX will be every other day.

Well, nice angles anyway🔥
Clearly you were able to stow it given the wiggly bits.

How was getting the air out with that tailwind?

There's lots of little handling inconveniences but none of which are specifically deal breakers for me. (no issues getting the air out of it Thatspec). All inconveniences are offset by the upwind gains which are legit.

The deal breaker for me is the range (not that great IMO, maybe a 10 knot spread for me) and then behavior when at the top of the range or in wacky wind (Gorge wind is gusty and swirly). Every parawing does something different when it reaches its upper end. Some oscillate and lose control. Some you can dump the energy into the A-lines. Some scare you by racing you upwind out of control. The Orbits, in the Gorge, struggle to keep their canopy shape. The wingtips collapsed on me every day that I rode them close to or slightly above the stated max range on the PPC website. When the wingtips collapse the Orbit falls back into the wind window and then re-inflates violently. I lost track of how many times the 3.5m was ripped out of my hand in these scenarios. The 2.7 did the same, but I had a strong grip at the time and something popped in my shoulder when it shock loaded back out. Session over. User error? Maybe? I would hope if you have smoother, cleaner, steadier wind this wouldn't be an issue for you.

This year I've gotten to the point where I don't want to fuss with a variety of gear. I ride the same foil, board, and parawing almost every day. The Orbits feel like specialty items similar to how my AFS time wrapped up. The best upwind you can imagine but I would need 3 of them to enjoy them every day I ride. The 777 stuff might not compete on vmg but it crushes on fun, versatility, and has disturbingly huge range that doesn't shock load my arms so I'll be on that for the remainder of the season.

However the trim bar is ligit I would see all brands having a variation on this soon.

I suspected that it may have been collapsing partially because of the PAL being engaged when it gusts. However, gusts don't land at my convenience. It was also obvious to me that my upwind angles were not as good when the PAL was fully disengaged. It reminded me of being on an underpowered Paia. When going upwind with it off and then slightly trimming it in I went at a steeper angle and faster.

I can imagine that over time you could get pretty tuned in to it. I think for me though, I just want simplicity. I could already sense I was getting a bit tired from fussing with it here where the winds are so variable.

Bryan, why did you buy a new 2.5m Hybrid? I thought you already had a 2.4m LTX but sold it because you would never need a wing smaller than the 3.1m LTX? If you needed something smaller, why not just use 2.4m the LTX? Sorry to hear you hurt your shoulder on Saturday, hopefully it heals fast! That was a great day out east.

I've been emailing with PPC and was just told that they will be sending out line sets to people who want them if you're hands are getting cut. They said they had never heard of the canopy collapsing though so they had no solution there.

Retina said..
There is still no video (I haven't found any) showing the drainage of the orbit. Show us a video when pw is submerged and redeployed!

Honestly it's a non issue for the 2.7m and 3.5m IMO. Super fast drainage and relaunch that felt closer to a single skin than something like the Paia double skin.