Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Vaccine who has it who hasn't who won't?

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Created by Razzonater 2 months ago, 25 Jun 2021
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tarquin1
664 posts
13 Jul 2021 1:09PM
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Macron made a speach last night here in France.
All hospital staff health,aid workers etc must be vaccinated by mid September.
Anyone over 12 needs a health pass to do pretty much anything starting in August. PCR tests were free but you will have to pay for them now. This is too discourage people from getting tested regularly for a health pass.
There is a huge push to vaccinate as many people as quick as possible.
They said half an hour after his speach the website to book your vaccination was flooded.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
13 Jul 2021 5:49PM
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FormulaNova said..
That is your own decision. If it really were super important to you, you would do the 2 weeks. I went through 2 weeks of home isolation here in WA and I didn't like it. It was incredibly boring, but it was only 2 weeks. At the time I was happy to be able to visit NSW and return to WA at all and counted myself lucky.

Kids are malleable. They won't like being locked up for 2 weeks but they will survive so its not the end of the world.

Inconvenient. Yes.


No it's not my decision, it's literally been forced on me. I'd happily do two weeks quarantine in our own home, garden, garage, but that's not what's on offer: www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/125584283/covid19-miq-is-not-designed-for-young-families-heres-how-to-survive

Inconvenient is the understatement of the day.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
13 Jul 2021 5:53PM
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FormulaNova said..
Even in Israel they have people objecting to vaccination. It will be interesting to see their stats on deaths or illness from vaccination and the stats from ongoing Covid infections.

If we were listening to the usual conspiracy theorists, it would be 'the Jews are behind this'. I wonder what they make of Israel and it's approach to vaccination?


J&J vaccine has another warning in the US: 100 of the 12.8 million people have developed Gullian-Barre Syndrome. So that's only 1 in 128,000 I'm sure you're saying but this is specific to men over 50...and I've no data on how of the 12.8 million are over 50.

Naturally, there is insufficient evidence to suggest a causal relationship.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
13 Jul 2021 5:56PM
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tarquin1 said..
Macron made a speach last night here in France.
All hospital staff health,aid workers etc must be vaccinated by mid September.
Anyone over 12 needs a health pass to do pretty much anything starting in August. PCR tests were free but you will have to pay for them now. This is too discourage people from getting tested regularly for a health pass.
There is a huge push to vaccinate as many people as quick as possible.
They said half an hour after his speach the website to book your vaccination was flooded.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code

I guess it'll be like what Australia is planning -- sure, you can choose *not* to be vaccinated, but we won't give you your social welfare, you'll need to have tests done prior to going to restaurants etc, or we'll just lock you out of life if you don't have the passport. That's just the result of your choice, it's not our fault, says the government.

Carantoc
WA, 5483 posts
13 Jul 2021 5:12PM
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tarquin1 said..
The whole hospital gets over run and scheduled operations,treatments,checks etc don't happen. Its going to take France over a year at the moment to catch up. With another wave coming and doctors and nurses already tired its only going to take longer to get that operation you need.


Lucky they got Covid-19 now as the excuse why the hospitals are so overloaded. They used to have to blame the previous government policies.

Meanwhile, with almost 0 covid-19 patients in hospital and somewhere around 0 in ICU Covid-19 has overwhelmed SA hospitals....

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-13/major-incidents-declared-in-two-adelaide-hospitals/100289744

www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/public+content/sa+health+internet/conditions/infectious+diseases/covid-19/about+covid-19/latest+updates/covid-19+dashboard

tarquin1
664 posts
13 Jul 2021 6:03PM
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So there is absolutely no chance of those hospitals dealing with thousands of people with COVID.
No wonder the govt is so strict on lockdowns.

eppo
WA, 8348 posts
13 Jul 2021 6:12PM
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Kamikuza said..


tarquin1 said..
Macron made a speach last night here in France.
All hospital staff health,aid workers etc must be vaccinated by mid September.
Anyone over 12 needs a health pass to do pretty much anything starting in August. PCR tests were free but you will have to pay for them now. This is too discourage people from getting tested regularly for a health pass.
There is a huge push to vaccinate as many people as quick as possible.
They said half an hour after his speach the website to book your vaccination was flooded.




en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code

I guess it'll be like what Australia is planning -- sure, you can choose *not* to be vaccinated, but we won't give you your social welfare, you'll need to have tests done prior to going to restaurants etc, or we'll just lock you out of life if you don't have the passport. That's just the result of your choice, it's not our fault, says the government.



Yes unfortunately I see it in the same light.
Controlling bodies always want more control.

Power begets power and they will use whatever opportunistic vehicle arises. if it wasn't COVID it would be something else. History tells us this over and over again. It's human nature. Not judging , if I wanted more control I'd do exactly the same thing.

That being said in a utopian world that had leaders with the right intention, there is a good argument for such vaccine "passports" for the social good.

But alas we are anything but. Be very wary of such suggestions, especially disguised as for the good of the population.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
13 Jul 2021 9:46PM
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tarquin1 said..
So there is absolutely no chance of those hospitals dealing with thousands of people with COVID.
No wonder the govt is so strict on lockdowns.


You're right, there is no chance of those hospitals dealing with thousand of people with COVID

Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
13 Jul 2021 9:47PM
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eppo said..
Yes unfortunately I see it in the same light.
Controlling bodies always want more control.

Power begets power and they will use whatever opportunistic vehicle arises. if it wasn't COVID it would be something else. History tells us this over and over again. It's human nature. Not judging , if I wanted more control I'd do exactly the same thing.

That being said in a utopian world that had leaders with the right intention, there is a good argument for such vaccine "passports" for the social good.

But alas we are anything but. Be very wary of such suggestions, especially disguised as for the good of the population.


There are still countries that require certificates that you've had applicable vaccines... but those vaccines have a body of long-term safety data behind them. And you're not being going to be arrested for buying a pair of shoes once you're there.

D3
WA, 149 posts
13 Jul 2021 7:53PM
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Carantoc said..

tarquin1 said..
The whole hospital gets over run and scheduled operations,treatments,checks etc don't happen. Its going to take France over a year at the moment to catch up. With another wave coming and doctors and nurses already tired its only going to take longer to get that operation you need.



Lucky they got Covid-19 now as the excuse why the hospitals are so overloaded. They used to have to blame the previous government policies.

Meanwhile, with almost 0 covid-19 patients in hospital and somewhere around 0 in ICU Covid-19 has overwhelmed SA hospitals....

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-13/major-incidents-declared-in-two-adelaide-hospitals/100289744

www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/public+content/sa+health+internet/conditions/infectious+diseases/covid-19/about+covid-19/latest+updates/covid-19+dashboard


Yep, much rather be living in Jakarta

kato
VIC, 2982 posts
14 Jul 2021 7:33PM
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Got mine today, now to see if the fridge magnet sticks to my arm. Btw thanks Sydney dickheads, COVID back in Victoria

FormulaNova
WA, 12454 posts
14 Jul 2021 8:52PM
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kato said..
Got mine today, now to see if the fridge magnet sticks to my arm. Btw thanks Sydney dickheads, COVID back in Victoria


Yeah, I feel for you guys. You come out of one and then this happens again.

I hate to get political, but the real reason for this problem is no dedicated quarantine areas for returnees. If everyone from OS had to come in via a dedicated centre with better control and onsite staff, then its much harder to get it into the community. The virus is only going to evolve into more contagious strains, and you could predict that, so why no dedicated facilities?

Asleep at the wheel, too worried about budgets? Lets see what the shutdowns do to budgets by not building these facilities quickly.

eppo
WA, 8348 posts
14 Jul 2021 8:58PM
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Amen above. I'd rather have our borders open (including overseas) but it managed through dedicated facilities. Imagine the business benefit that could be obtained as international money and its people are allowed to come here and do their deals. Could be turned into a competitive advantage and we are isolated enough and have had enough time and data to do it.

well maybe you Victorian's will get fed government assistance like our seemingly extremely economically important New South Welshman.

tarquin1
664 posts
14 Jul 2021 11:23PM
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Well yet again the govt here didn't think things over very much.
Let's make it compulsory for children 12 and over to be vaccinated just as the school holidays start. At the same time as all medical staff.
Oh guess what the website to book your vaccination crashed. Thousands of people cancel their holidays and blame the govt. The kids aren't vaccinated and we can't do anything with them. Now that you have to pay for PCR tests most families can't afford to get the kids tested every time they want to do something.
Oh sorry says the govt and changes the date to the end of the school holidays!!!!

Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
15 Jul 2021 8:01PM
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FormulaNova said..
The virus is only going to evolve into more contagious strains


Good, the sooner the better. More contagious = less deadly. Then maybe it'll be treated with the same level of fear-mongering and indifference as the flu is.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
15 Jul 2021 8:07PM
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eppo said..
Amen above. I'd rather have our borders open (including overseas) but it managed through dedicated facilities. Imagine the business benefit that could be obtained as international money and its people are allowed to come here and do their deals. Could be turned into a competitive advantage and we are isolated enough and have had enough time and data to do it.

well maybe you Victorian's will get fed government assistance like our seemingly extremely economically important New South Welshman.


The problem with that is what's being demonstrated in NZ, and the "travel bubble" between NZ and Australia.

The managed isolation is an expensive horror show, and if you travel in the bubble you're liable to get trapped, then stuck with thousands of dollars of quarantine bills and an unexpected two-week delay to your life.

All this is simply to stop people getting sick -- not dying, not "flattening the curve" so the hospitals are "overwhelmed".

But then, if things were done in a sensible manner, the government would have to admit it ****ed up, give up all the emergency powers it gave itself, and let the citizens that they have so much distain for do what they do with every other infectious virus -- look after themselves.

FormulaNova
WA, 12454 posts
15 Jul 2021 8:22PM
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Kamikuza said..

FormulaNova said..
The virus is only going to evolve into more contagious strains



Good, the sooner the better. More contagious = less deadly. Then maybe it'll be treated with the same level of fear-mongering and indifference as the flu is.


I used to think this too, and am still hoping that this turns out to be the case, but I have been doing some reading on it and it turns out its not always the case. It also confuses things when we treat patients as even the more deadly strains can be survived.

Its quite possible that we get strains that are very contagious and could also be more deadly. It is conceivable that you catch the virus, pass it on easily for the next week and then succumb to it later.

I hope you and I are right and we end up with a very contagious strain that is just like the common cold, as long as it also prevents other strains, it would be great. Unfortunately the virus in the Spanish Flu killed millions first before they were immune to it or it became less deadly.

psychojoe
WA, 1274 posts
15 Jul 2021 8:32PM
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FormulaNova said..

Kamikuza said..


FormulaNova said..
The virus is only going to evolve into more contagious strains




Good, the sooner the better. More contagious = less deadly. Then maybe it'll be treated with the same level of fear-mongering and indifference as the flu is.



I used to think this too, and am still hoping that this turns out to be the case, but I have been doing some reading on it and it turns out its not always the case. It also confuses things when we treat patients as even the more deadly strains can be survived.

Its quite possible that we get strains that are very contagious and could also be more deadly. It is conceivable that you catch the virus, pass it on easily for the next week and then succumb to it later.

I hope you and I are right and we end up with a very contagious strain that is just like the common cold, as long as it also prevents other strains, it would be great. Unfortunately the virus in the Spanish Flu killed millions first before they were immune to it or it became less deadly.


From what I've read, you are right. It's become super infectious and less deadly than a flu, with the bonus being that it's one of those viruses that apparently closes the door to the host, which would explain the lack of seasonal flu during Covid. If I may echo the words of a prominent epidemiologist, there'll come a time soon when we say phew it's only Covid

airsail
QLD, 753 posts
16 Jul 2021 5:17AM
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Australia has just updated its incoming passenger card. You now have to state if you have ever had Covid and if you have been vaccinated. Most countries will adopt this practice and it will be difficult for the unvaccinated to travel.
China is looking to ban any unvaccinated from public places, it will be like being in a never ending lockdown. But of course the vaccination isn't mandatory, you still have a choice.

tarquin1
664 posts
16 Jul 2021 3:35AM
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Over 2 million people have booked to get there vaccination since Monday when the govt changed things here.

theDoctor
NSW, 5554 posts
16 Jul 2021 3:34PM
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Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
16 Jul 2021 8:03PM
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FormulaNova said.
I used to think this too, and am still hoping that this turns out to be the case, but I have been doing some reading on it and it turns out its not always the case. It also confuses things when we treat patients as even the more deadly strains can be survived.

Its quite possible that we get strains that are very contagious and could also be more deadly. It is conceivable that you catch the virus, pass it on easily for the next week and then succumb to it later.

I hope you and I are right and we end up with a very contagious strain that is just like the common cold, as long as it also prevents other strains, it would be great. Unfortunately the virus in the Spanish Flu killed millions first before they were immune to it or it became less deadly.


Thattends to bethe case in viral infections... Bacterial goes the other way. If people survive a virus it's not deadly by definition is it :D

Why do you think they've shifted from trumpeting death tolls to positive test results? Nobody is dying, but that's not scary enough to maintain the authoritarianism.

Standards of living and health care were much lower than now, which left most people susceptible to secondary bacterial infections that proved deadly ...and penicillin wasn't discovered until ten years later. It was a strain of H1N1 by the way, which is just plain old flu now.

Good news is that people who survived infection of the Spanish flu still have anti-bodies to it, to this day. Which is why flu is a greater mortal threat to younger people (and the very old and weak) than it is to older people -- you gather exposure to the flu at low "doses" through your life. Which is also why NZ is seeing the surge of RSD that is overwhelming hospitals -- kids didn't get lightly exposed to it because schools were locked down.

The thing is, is that we know how to deal with infectious diseases,and public health practices (hand washing etc) are actually effective at containing these things. Japan has a population of 126 million, very densely populated, had 1,500 people die of flu in 2018. Australia lost 800 in 2019. The difference? As far as I can tell, there are alcohol hand sprays everywhere here, more people wear masks in flu season.

But nobody cares about that.

FormulaNova
WA, 12454 posts
16 Jul 2021 6:42PM
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Kamikuza said..

FormulaNova said.
I used to think this too, and am still hoping that this turns out to be the case, but I have been doing some reading on it and it turns out its not always the case. It also confuses things when we treat patients as even the more deadly strains can be survived.

Its quite possible that we get strains that are very contagious and could also be more deadly. It is conceivable that you catch the virus, pass it on easily for the next week and then succumb to it later.

I hope you and I are right and we end up with a very contagious strain that is just like the common cold, as long as it also prevents other strains, it would be great. Unfortunately the virus in the Spanish Flu killed millions first before they were immune to it or it became less deadly.



Thattends to bethe case in viral infections... Bacterial goes the other way. If people survive a virus it's not deadly by definition is it :D

Why do you think they've shifted from trumpeting death tolls to positive test results? Nobody is dying, but that's not scary enough to maintain the authoritarianism.

Standards of living and health care were much lower than now, which left most people susceptible to secondary bacterial infections that proved deadly ...and penicillin wasn't discovered until ten years later. It was a strain of H1N1 by the way, which is just plain old flu now.

Good news is that people who survived infection of the Spanish flu still have anti-bodies to it, to this day. Which is why flu is a greater mortal threat to younger people (and the very old and weak) than it is to older people -- you gather exposure to the flu at low "doses" through your life. Which is also why NZ is seeing the surge of RSD that is overwhelming hospitals -- kids didn't get lightly exposed to it because schools were locked down.

The thing is, is that we know how to deal with infectious diseases,and public health practices (hand washing etc) are actually effective at containing these things. Japan has a population of 126 million, very densely populated, had 1,500 people die of flu in 2018. Australia lost 800 in 2019. The difference? As far as I can tell, there are alcohol hand sprays everywhere here, more people wear masks in flu season.

But nobody cares about that.


Yeah, the info I was reading suggests that viruses do not always turn into more contagious and less deadly variants. I can see how this could happen if the host passes on the virus early on before getting deathly ill. Its quite conceivable. Spread for a week or two, and then die.

I think the media wouldn't know the difference between any strains other than what they get told about the spread of them. I am still not sure what the death rate for the Delta strain would be as no one seems to have the data compared do they? If Delta is much lower, I think we would agree that we would hear about it eventually...

The Japan/Asia mask thing is interesting. I have seen Asian people wearing masks when they were sick before, which shows you that they have been conditioned to do this as a normal thing to protect others. Here, I was surprised when our politicians said not to wear masks as it promoted a false sense of security, but they seemingly changed their mind when it was shown to be very effective.

Are there many people alive from the days of the Spanish Flu? You can't really just say that it was 'just H1N1' as we know lots of people died from it. I wonder if 'we' have effective immunity to it because we catch it when we are younger and fitter and are then immune to it? I do agree with you though that health care and the understanding of disease is much better now, leading to better outcomes.

Remember at the start of this pandemic where the issue seemed to be supply of ventilators, where now the treatment methods themselves have evolved as different doctors and hospitals reported different/better ways to treat people. This in itself is promising.

theDoctor
NSW, 5554 posts
16 Jul 2021 9:04PM
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psychojoe
WA, 1274 posts
16 Jul 2021 7:18PM
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Select to expand quote
Kamikuza said..

FormulaNova said.
I used to think this too, and am still hoping that this turns out to be the case, but I have been doing some reading on it and it turns out its not always the case. It also confuses things when we treat patients as even the more deadly strains can be survived.

Its quite possible that we get strains that are very contagious and could also be more deadly. It is conceivable that you catch the virus, pass it on easily for the next week and then succumb to it later.

I hope you and I are right and we end up with a very contagious strain that is just like the common cold, as long as it also prevents other strains, it would be great. Unfortunately the virus in the Spanish Flu killed millions first before they were immune to it or it became less deadly.



Thattends to bethe case in viral infections... Bacterial goes the other way. If people survive a virus it's not deadly by definition is it :D

Why do you think they've shifted from trumpeting death tolls to positive test results? Nobody is dying, but that's not scary enough to maintain the authoritarianism.

Standards of living and health care were much lower than now, which left most people susceptible to secondary bacterial infections that proved deadly ...and penicillin wasn't discovered until ten years later. It was a strain of H1N1 by the way, which is just plain old flu now.

Good news is that people who survived infection of the Spanish flu still have anti-bodies to it, to this day. Which is why flu is a greater mortal threat to younger people (and the very old and weak) than it is to older people -- you gather exposure to the flu at low "doses" through your life. Which is also why NZ is seeing the surge of RSD that is overwhelming hospitals -- kids didn't get lightly exposed to it because schools were locked down.

The thing is, is that we know how to deal with infectious diseases,and public health practices (hand washing etc) are actually effective at containing these things. Japan has a population of 126 million, very densely populated, had 1,500 people die of flu in 2018. Australia lost 800 in 2019. The difference? As far as I can tell, there are alcohol hand sprays everywhere here, more people wear masks in flu season.

But nobody cares about that.


The difference might be more to do with the number of isoflavones in the diet.
I'd like to read a journal article that looks for a correlation, I imagine a strong one

Kamikuza
QLD, 6169 posts
17 Jul 2021 12:04AM
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FormulaNova said..
Yeah, the info I was reading suggests that viruses do not always turn into more contagious and less deadly variants. I can see how this could happen if the host passes on the virus early on before getting deathly ill. Its quite conceivable. Spread for a week or two, and then die.

I think the media wouldn't know the difference between any strains other than what they get told about the spread of them. I am still not sure what the death rate for the Delta strain would be as no one seems to have the data compared do they? If Delta is much lower, I think we would agree that we would hear about it eventually...

The Japan/Asia mask thing is interesting. I have seen Asian people wearing masks when they were sick before, which shows you that they have been conditioned to do this as a normal thing to protect others. Here, I was surprised when our politicians said not to wear masks as it promoted a false sense of security, but they seemingly changed their mind when it was shown to be very effective.

Are there many people alive from the days of the Spanish Flu? You can't really just say that it was 'just H1N1' as we know lots of people died from it. I wonder if 'we' have effective immunity to it because we catch it when we are younger and fitter and are then immune to it? I do agree with you though that health care and the understanding of disease is much better now, leading to better outcomes.

Remember at the start of this pandemic where the issue seemed to be supply of ventilators, where now the treatment methods themselves have evolved as different doctors and hospitals reported different/better ways to treat people. This in itself is promising.



Ugh, media. Yech.

Look at the statistics. Positive tests are up, but deaths are low and unchanged.

I'd say maybe 30% of people wore masks before. Dunno if it's connected to protecting others though.
"Very effective"...where's the data on that? There's been a sudden proliferation of tests touting the effectiveness of masks since COVID which I'm very skeptical of... but if you look at older studies, there's a lot less enthusiasm and a lot more equivocation. The problem with masks is that nobody wears them correctly, and it's become a virtual signal in the medical theater. Thank god everyone keeps their Karen-ing to themselves here.

Enough still alive to do studies 32 in the study I'm aware of. It's literally a variant of H1N1 (or vice versa) and as I said, people died because living conditions were ****, they got bacterial infections and developed pneumonia, there was no penicillin and medical care was crap. The more you get exposed at lower doses of a virus, the more likely you are to have some resistance to it. Which is why the Santa Clara study found 50 to 100 times more people actually had antibodies for SARS2 and yet didn't have notable symptoms.

Yes. So many people died in the beginning because the treatments were inappropriate, as were contact practices. The Swedish guy acknowledges that, and look at the change in their data now they've adapted. Funny how we never here the same level of condemnation of Sweden that we used any more eh...

Yes it's promising -- look at the data. IMHO we've passed the threshold where lockdowns cause more harm than good -- what's going on in Australia at the moment is a real piss-take, just unbelievable.

D3
WA, 149 posts
17 Jul 2021 1:12AM
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Who is still banking their Covid treatment hopes on ivermectin?

D3
WA, 149 posts
17 Jul 2021 1:15AM
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Select to expand quote
Kamikuza said..

FormulaNova said..
Yeah, the info I was reading suggests that viruses do not always turn into more contagious and less deadly variants. I can see how this could happen if the host passes on the virus early on before getting deathly ill. Its quite conceivable. Spread for a week or two, and then die.

I think the media wouldn't know the difference between any strains other than what they get told about the spread of them. I am still not sure what the death rate for the Delta strain would be as no one seems to have the data compared do they? If Delta is much lower, I think we would agree that we would hear about it eventually...

The Japan/Asia mask thing is interesting. I have seen Asian people wearing masks when they were sick before, which shows you that they have been conditioned to do this as a normal thing to protect others. Here, I was surprised when our politicians said not to wear masks as it promoted a false sense of security, but they seemingly changed their mind when it was shown to be very effective.

Are there many people alive from the days of the Spanish Flu? You can't really just say that it was 'just H1N1' as we know lots of people died from it. I wonder if 'we' have effective immunity to it because we catch it when we are younger and fitter and are then immune to it? I do agree with you though that health care and the understanding of disease is much better now, leading to better outcomes.

Remember at the start of this pandemic where the issue seemed to be supply of ventilators, where now the treatment methods themselves have evolved as different doctors and hospitals reported different/better ways to treat people. This in itself is promising.




Ugh, media. Yech.

Look at the statistics. Positive tests are up, but deaths are low and unchanged.

I'd say maybe 30% of people wore masks before. Dunno if it's connected to protecting others though.
"Very effective"...where's the data on that? There's been a sudden proliferation of tests touting the effectiveness of masks since COVID which I'm very skeptical of... but if you look at older studies, there's a lot less enthusiasm and a lot more equivocation. The problem with masks is that nobody wears them correctly, and it's become a virtual signal in the medical theater. Thank god everyone keeps their Karen-ing to themselves here.

Enough still alive to do studies 32 in the study I'm aware of. It's literally a variant of H1N1 (or vice versa) and as I said, people died because living conditions were ****, they got bacterial infections and developed pneumonia, there was no penicillin and medical care was crap. The more you get exposed at lower doses of a virus, the more likely you are to have some resistance to it. Which is why the Santa Clara study found 50 to 100 times more people actually had antibodies for SARS2 and yet didn't have notable symptoms.

Yes. So many people died in the beginning because the treatments were inappropriate, as were contact practices. The Swedish guy acknowledges that, and look at the change in their data now they've adapted. Funny how we never here the same level of condemnation of Sweden that we used any more eh...

Yes it's promising -- look at the data. IMHO we've passed the threshold where lockdowns cause more harm than good -- what's going on in Australia at the moment is a real piss-take, just unbelievable.


Have you looked atbother countries? Like one of our closest neighbours? Whom we have a large tourist link with?

They're definitely past the threshold

tarquin1
664 posts
17 Jul 2021 2:31AM
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879 000 people vaccinated today in France.
Delta virus exploding in Europe but hospitisation decreesing.
Obviously a win for the govt and a reason to make vaccination compulsory.
Or the Delta variant is more contagious but less harmful ?

japie
NSW, 6410 posts
17 Jul 2021 7:25AM
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D3 said..
Who is still banking their Covid treatment hopes on ivermectin?


Yup



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Vaccine who has it who hasn't who won't?" started by Razzonater