Bow Kites are 1,000,000 times better, after being lofted 20m+ and landing on concrete I would say C kites are the pits. Maybe we should all just go back to C kites and ditch the chicken loop, and donkey dicks then we can be real hardcore and have some real fun. Also if we get really excited we can remove 2 lines.

NJPornstar said...

I dont want a reseller pulling the wool over newbies eyes either.

Reseller, retailer, importer, distributor, kiter, kiteboarder, buggyer, partner, they all fit, sure there are lots of others too.

NJPornstar said...
C kites and 5 lines are good for.

Help with top end stability.

Sure, but most of the top end stability comes from a good kite design, not the 5th.

NJPornstar said...
Help relaunching super fast when you have worked it out.

Ahh, when the newbie has worked it out, in the meantime are several or dozens of swim and tangles. Sure some learn it fast, many did not.

NJPornstar said...
Kill the power and land consistanty down wind where an out of control kite ends up.

You can do that with flagging systems on bow kites too.

NJPornstar said...
Kills the power so well full power tricks you arent punishished by the kite.

The simple single act of letting go of the bar on many bow/hybrid/high depower kites has an identical effect.
Your 5th line only kills the power IF you are unhooked and IF you let go of the bar in time.

NJPornstar said...
Good systems work well for depower/relaunch with over 15 twists in the lines.

Can't imagine many situations where a rider will deliberately put 15 twists in the lines and then keep riding and attempting new high risk of failure tricks?
Anyway a bow/hybrid/high depower kite will still depower with twists in the lines.

NJPornstar said...
Safety leash can be connected all the time and have reliable performance.

Ditto, all bow/hybrid/high depower kites should be ridden with the leash connected and the rider should know when and how to use it.

NJPornstar said...
5th connected Safety leash is the only practical leash for riding sliders.

No thats not true, it is simply one option! Dangerous sliders with framed and uncovered sides are serious health risk with or without a leash!!!!!

NJPornstar said...
Your kite can be landed directly down wind on tight side shore beaches.

Maybe! And any bow/hybrid/high depower kite can be landed in the water at the same beach for a much safer and less harmful (to the kite) landing.

NJPornstar said...
Your kite turns off completely doesnt tangle up the lines and can be relaunched after release.

All bow/hybrid/high depower kites have the feature if the rider is using the leash clipped to the centre line, below the bar and above the c-loop. Some Hybrids like the Rev have a unique, easy to re-engage safety depower system.

NJPornstar said...
Your kite lasts longer as it doesnt get stressed from speeding in the water

I know what you mean but what you said sounds funny! I reckon riders get more stressed from the speeding into the the water episodes from overpowered and uncontrolled begginer C kite sessions.

Letting go of the bar on all bow/hybrid/high depower kites dramically reduces the kites impact speed and force.

NJPornstar said...
You can set up the kite to drift of the wind while wave riding.

Many bow/hybrid/high depower kites, because of their superior projected areas and efficiency do this just by pushing the bar out a little, no special tuning required.

NJPornstar said...
When released in the surf theres more of a chance the kite wil float lightly up and over white water. Instead of catching the white water and blowing panels out.

Unsubstantiated and probabaly unprovable claim. I could say the same about bow/hybrid/high depower kites but won't, because I know how unpredictable the ocean and waves can be.

NJPornstar said...
5th is like a extra hand on the kite so you have more control of the wing when its down, meaning you can handle it in difficult situations while still controlling the kite at the bar.

Most of those "difficult situations" just dont arise with most bow/hybrid/high depower kites.

NJPornstar said...
5th also helps you in a situation where you dont want the kite to fly at all, No tight sweeping lines across the wind window.

Simple single act of letting the bar go, on most bow/hybrid/high depower kites allows for several seconds of no pull and kite still flying time, or it can be let go of completely and thekite will rest on the water ready for immediate relaunch.

NJPornstar said...
2 tangled 5 line kites is not too bad when the rigs are released.

Are you serious? IF the rigs are released in time, PLUS there are so many varibales to each tangle situation - WHICH never should happen anyway, and is always caused by flyer error and has nothing to do with either style of kite!!!

NJPornstar said...
5 lines Russian starts in almost no wind, 3 knts, Cause you can decrease the angle of attack so far it will fly.

Any decent bow/hybrid/high depower kite will fly and can be self launched in the same winds that any 5th lined c kite can be, another rubbish claim. Russian?? WTF?
You mean Roulette?

NJPornstar said...
If your system has a cleat you can cleat off 30cm and you wont fly when raving sh1t on the beach to your mates.

A dumb place to be, with a kite at midday!
Dumb flyers with bow/hybrid/high depower kites can do it too without any adjustment to anything except letting the bar ride out in gusts. Major dumb act anywhere there are other kiters!!!

NJPornstar said...
5 lines is generally a 100% depowering leash that will less likely break due to stress damage.

5th lines systems break and need maintenance, high stress loads do break them.

NJPornstar said...
More skilled riders use 5 lines, cause they can...

Not true anymore, heaps more riders using bow/hybrid/high depower kites and heaps of extremely talented riders never compete. Just like when I used to surf years ago with people like Wayne Lynch.
Unsubstantiated claiming has no cred.

NJPornstar said...
4 lines and bridles are good for alittle more wind range and its always a bummer when things wear out and break when there's truck loads of wind.

The market and users disagree in regard to bow/hybrid/high depower kites. All kites need to be maintained, some hybrids like the Ozone kites have no more moving parts than your 5th line C, so not a valid argument or point.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

poor relative said...

I feel safer on a 5 line.

yup dito..high depower 5th line hybrids .. yay for them

Scrotus said...

Bow Kites are 1,000,000 times better, after being lofted 20m+ and landing on concrete I would say C kites are the pits. Maybe we should all just go back to C kites and ditch the chicken loop, and donkey dicks then we can be real hardcore and have some real fun. Also if we get really excited we can remove 2 lines.

If you use a fixed C kite and never hook in on or near land then this is the safest setup around. Guaranteed 100% depower if you let go of the bar. Launching and landing in even the most precarious of situations is a cinch, and worrying about huge gusts is a thing of the past. However, this setup does require some kite flying skills (as opposed to the skillset required for those on bows).

poor relative said...

I feel safer on a 5 line.

Is it just the 5th line, or is it partly due to the extended wind range of the hybrid North kite that you fly, as in its a combination of both?

Do you unhook, often?

And do you prefer the overall peformance of your hybrid 5th line kite, to your old C kites?

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

poor relative said...

I feel safer on a 5 line.

A 5th line will rip a kite into two bits in the surf.
You said it yourself, Porno.
In the Gear Review Section, 4 vs. 5 line topic.
You actually confessed to ripping a kite due to the 5th !
lol.

Kitepower Australia said...

Not wanting to repeat everything said by Steve-being a kiter of about 6 years or so and coming right through the progression from the most simple C kites through all the changes in those years to today's SLE/Bow/Hybrid etc-I totally agree with what Steve has said-I don't really care what you ride as long as you're having a good time at no one else's expense.

There has been no demise in flying skills brought about by the latest generation of inflatable kites-I wave ride almost exclusively nowadays and absolutely dig my SLE for waves-particularly in gusty situations-granted I'm not from the unhooked school whom seem to prefer unhooked on a C, so my style is a little different-however I think the SLE /BOW development has been a huge boon-particularly useful for riding a smaller kite for given power-when I used to ride a 13/14 C I now ride an 8/9 SLE-means I have the same power BUT much greater de-power and manoeuvrability-which is all good for waves (combined with a super quick relaunch when I fugg up).

I wouldn't go back to a C now-totally convinced of that-and, if anything, the SLE has enhanced my kite and surf skills rather than resulted in their demise.

Sounds like your next purchase should be a PL flying doona .Auto Zenith is a real plus and you will be able to eat your sandwiches without having to worry about the kite

metalmongrel said...

I have been kiting for about 6 months on a board but spent at least 20 sessions before that learning to body drag, bail and control the kite. I didn't have lessons which would have increased my progression. I learnt on a C kites sold to me by a shop that reccommend they were the best to learn on. First kite: 16m RRD type 4.1 that they set the safety up on which happened to be the wrong way round and wouldn't release as I was being lofted 20ft in the air and dragged down the beach. Second Kite: 10m Naish x3 with fith line, great kite for a beginner, I enjoyed being boosted all over the place, looping the kite and generally being injured everytime I went out. The thing is because I was cautious and lauched in safe places I learnt a lot about kite controland what to do when sh!t went wrong. I also learnt that a QR on a chicken loop means f*ck all when your being dragged across a paddock, through a fence and across a road because you were sold a kite you later found out should have only been in the hands of an advanced rider.
I eventually got my first run on a 14m Toro 2 which ended in a huge boost and, after crashing another boost until I could release the kite.
I bought an SLE this year and have progressed much more quickly and, to an extent safely. I am 95kgs and able to kite in 25knots comfortably on a 1.8m cabrinha double agent. I can edge, pop, jump and don't go into poo satnce when overpowered because I work on my technique, the kite has nothing to do with it, I'm the one on the board not the kite.
If you think SLE's and bows are super safe your an idiot, the only super safe kite is flat and in the bag. In this regard some beginners might have a false sense of security. Since having an SLE the following has happened.
1.) Kite looped, leash wrapped around power lines and trim lines causing the kite to loop more making the leash wrap tighter locking the bar against the trim loop meaning the kite was left looping fully powered with a QR on the loop that couldn't be activated, 9 loops later I managed to grab the middle lines and kill the kite. If there was a fith line this wouldn't have happened.
2.) The front Bridle broke again causing an out of control kite loop.
3.) The front bridle broke again looping the kite into the trees.
4.) The kite picked up some seaweed after a relaunch that jammed in the pulley causing the kite to loop again.
This all occurred on a well known 07 kite.
People will undoubtedly reply that I should have got lessons, it happened because I was a kook etc. The fact is no matter what style of kite you ride it is up to you to practise and work on technique and safety. I'm glad I learnt on a c kite because it taught me how to handle out of control kites with minimal depower, Im glad I bought an SLE because it gave me the ability to concentrate on my board skills and not getting boosted all over the place. I can ride a C kite a thousand times better now because of the skills I learnt flying an SLE which seems to take more skill to fly. My next kite will be a rebel, depower of a SLE with the fith line of a C kite. I ride at least 1-5 hours a day 5 days a week in 15 to 28 knots. I'm 95kg and ride a 1.8m cabrinha double agent without fins and use a 12m 07 SLE. The guys I ride with are 55kg, rides a 12m 06 crossbow converted 1:1 and a 129 Pro toy and the other guy is 65kg rides a 12m 04 Boxer/ 14m 04 Airrush/ 15.5m 04 Airrush and a 140 Naish something?. He wants an SLE or a bow because we can handle a bigger wind range, don,t get boosted on relaunch and handle gusts much better.
Cheers.

simonmm said...

Scrotus said...

Bow Kites are 1,000,000 times better, after being lofted 20m+ and landing on concrete I would say C kites are the pits. Maybe we should all just go back to C kites and ditch the chicken loop, and donkey dicks then we can be real hardcore and have some real fun. Also if we get really excited we can remove 2 lines.

If you use a fixed C kite and never hook in on or near land then this is the safest setup around. Guaranteed 100% depower if you let go of the bar. Launching and landing in even the most precarious of situations is a cinch, and worrying about huge gusts is a thing of the past. However, this setup does require some kite flying skills (as opposed to the skillset required for those on bows).

Fixed C? If you dont hook and launch ur stuffed in high/med winds? When I got lofted I wasnt launching I was stand there in 10knots about to get my board then 45kt gust. unaviodable because I had kite st8 up above my head, and by the time I hand hand on the pathetic safety which doesnt disconnect under load i was 10m up. Having a bow I would of dropped the bar, then pulled the safety much safer.

I am going to write into "Top Gear" (car show on TV for those that don't know) and suggest they do a segment the equivalent of this post:

"Bow kites and the demise of kite flying skills"

My suggestion:

"Modern cars and the demise of horse and cart driving skills"

Scrotus said...

simonmm said...

Scrotus said...

Bow Kites are 1,000,000 times better, after being lofted 20m+ and landing on concrete I would say C kites are the pits. Maybe we should all just go back to C kites and ditch the chicken loop, and donkey dicks then we can be real hardcore and have some real fun. Also if we get really excited we can remove 2 lines.

If you use a fixed C kite and never hook in on or near land then this is the safest setup around. Guaranteed 100% depower if you let go of the bar. Launching and landing in even the most precarious of situations is a cinch, and worrying about huge gusts is a thing of the past. However, this setup does require some kite flying skills (as opposed to the skillset required for those on bows).

Fixed C? If you dont hook and launch ur stuffed in high/med winds? When I got lofted I wasnt launching I was stand there in 10knots about to get my board then 45kt gust. unaviodable because I had kite st8 up above my head, and by the time I hand hand on the pathetic safety which doesnt disconnect under load i was 10m up. Having a bow I would of dropped the bar, then pulled the safety much safer.

Spent all last week launching an unhooked fixed C in winds up to 30-40 knots. If you were an absolute schmuck and tried to lanuch a 12m kite in these winds then you might need a chicken loop (shortly followed by an ambulance), however with a 5 or 7 it is not problem. As shown by your story if, in hindsight, you had been unhooked when you launched, your kite would have been ripped out of your hands when the wind rocketed to 45 knots (and flagged onto a safety line if rigged) with no consequence to you. I have still seen people on bow kites who have launched with a tangled bridle and been flung around by an out of control kite that would not stop no matter how far you pushed the bar out. 100% depower my ass.

I'm never dissappointed when people offering their experiences to help others get bagged by self appointed experts who decide to do things like kiteboard and instantly put up a kite and carve upwind in a god like fashion on their first attempt, never crash or even get their hair wet and spend the rest of their time basking in their own splendor. I am to blame for my experiences however lessons would not have prevented the shop selling me the wrong gear or stopped the numerous failures of my 07 kite from occurring. I'm glad that these people want to stay away from me because it makes more room for those who want to help newbies and enjoy the sport instead of their own company. No need to reply. Shutdown.

Kitepower Australia said...
The inherent safety of the drop the bar depower of bow/hybrid/high depower kites is better and more popular than C's and has nothing to do with the demise of flyer skills, and in fact increases the demand for flyer skill.

Too true, the lack of direct feel and vaguer steering, the lack of linearity in steering input required depending on kite trim, the requirement to try and competently deal with bridle tangles and difficult relaunch positions for the kite, the increased risks associated with line and bridle tangles and the battle against the 100% depower stigma all contribute to the fact that bows ultimately require more skill to fly. Thank goodness that there are still a few good old Cs around for those who just like performance without the requirement for all the complicated skills associated with bows.

By the by, as stated above, if you launch and land unhooked with a C, you definately mitigate one of the greatest safety obstacles in kiting. Non of this drop the bar, watch the kite jelly fish, invert, tangle then power up for a warp factor 5 ride to Davey Jones locker. Unfortunately, despite all the advanced kite flying skills that bow riders have developed, none of them seem to be able to launch or land unhooked and such a process seems to be limited to those who have solid handling of good old Cs.

simonmm said...

Scrotus said...

simonmm said...

Scrotus said...

Bow Kites are 1,000,000 times better, after being lofted 20m+ and landing on concrete I would say C kites are the pits. Maybe we should all just go back to C kites and ditch the chicken loop, and donkey dicks then we can be real hardcore and have some real fun. Also if we get really excited we can remove 2 lines.

If you use a fixed C kite and never hook in on or near land then this is the safest setup around. Guaranteed 100% depower if you let go of the bar. Launching and landing in even the most precarious of situations is a cinch, and worrying about huge gusts is a thing of the past. However, this setup does require some kite flying skills (as opposed to the skillset required for those on bows).

Fixed C? If you dont hook and launch ur stuffed in high/med winds? When I got lofted I wasnt launching I was stand there in 10knots about to get my board then 45kt gust. unaviodable because I had kite st8 up above my head, and by the time I hand hand on the pathetic safety which doesnt disconnect under load i was 10m up. Having a bow I would of dropped the bar, then pulled the safety much safer.

Spent all last week launching an unhooked fixed C in winds up to 30-40 knots. If you were an absolute schmuck and tried to lanuch a 12m kite in these winds then you might need a chicken loop (shortly followed by an ambulance), however with a 5 or 7 it is not problem. As shown by your story if, in hindsight, you had been unhooked when you launched, your kite would have been ripped out of your hands when the wind rocketed to 45 knots (and flagged onto a safety line if rigged) with no consequence to you. I have still seen people on bow kites who have launched with a tangled bridle and been flung around by an out of control kite that would not stop no matter how far you pushed the bar out. 100% depower my ass.

Thats no problem, but what if you are out in 15knots on your 16m, 30minutes later it turns to 30knots. drop the bar pressure is always good, if that dont work or gets tangled pull the safety. Do they even sell c kites anymore?

Scrotus said...
Thats no problem, but what if you are out in 15knots on your 16m, 30minutes later it turns to 30knots. drop the bar pressure is always good, if that dont work or gets tangled pull the safety. Do they even sell c kites anymore?

What a muddled up tete-a-tete.

Anyhow, bow or C, I'd be crapping my duds if I had a 16 up in 30 knots and would have hopefully pulled the safety long before the wind had picked up that much. If, however I was caught by a massive gust on a large kite, I would either a) be out on the water and hopefully have time to pull the safety (I know that this is often easier said than done) again irrespective of bow or C, or b) be on or near the shore in which case I would be unhooked and the kite would be ripped out of my hands. I really try and avoid standing around hooked into any kite. If I can't hang on to it then it is more than welcome to go.

Oh and by the by, plenty of Cs still around (Best, Slingshot, Airush, Carved, JN, Gin etc).