oh man stop rubbing in the club priced drinkes!

Theres no doubt the majority of the problems are associated with Dolls Point as the locals that own the houses across the road from the beach hate the kiters especially the guy that owns the chicken shop.

Dolls can be an dangerous place to kite when it gets crowded and to make matters more dangerous you have kitepower doing lessons in the middle of all the carnage that takes place.

The boys at Kurnell do a great job in keeping with in the rules , Rick and the boys are quick to lend some advice to newbies that come over there and start to cause trouble.

Same said for Brighton you get the odd idiot that may venture past the Novotel but Col is quick to lend some good advice as to the do,s and dont,s of kiting at Brighton.

See you on Wednesday Night.

quote:

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Originally posted by oxy

Dolls can be an dangerous place to kite when it gets crowded and to make matters more dangerous you have kitepower doing lessons in the middle of all the carnage that takes place.

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How about the 'Botany Bay Carnage Club' for the club name ?
lol

Hey Jefferson,

IMHO the rule of just no jumping within a line length of the beach anywhere along the foreshore is a reasonable request. Most of Botany Bay with only one or two exceptions has either roads, frequented footpaths or houses within 20m of the waters edge, this puts the general public within the wind window of the rider.

Remember that the beach is there for everyone to share, it's not just for kiters. Any crashed jump or trick inside a line length puts the public in harms way. If you get just one person cut by a line from a kite, your access is gone then you and the council will have no more problems.

Beginners cannot launch, land and learn downwind of the flat section due to the gustiness of the wind over the beach which makes it even more dangerous. That is precisely why no one uses that area of the beach, not to mention that there are usually swimmers and fishermen along that patch. It still amazes me that people launch downwind behind the Norfolk Pines with the kite towards the beach, thats nuts! and we wonder why there are launching issues

Dolls Point was originally a learners location. It started off with my school teaching there in 2000 when everyone used to ride at President Avenue carpark, that was the spot everyone rode. I started teaching at Dolls to give learners a wide beach with no hotshots jumping all around them. Now the hotshots have all come to dolls and are trying to force the learners out??? It's not gonna happen.

Learners need a secure area to get on the board and body drag, that happens to be downwind of the rock groyne at Dolls, it's the best spot on the bay for such, there is no where better otherwise they'd go there. There has always been a school at Dolls and you need to give the learners a little consideration whilst there are lessons going on which means no jumping within a line length of the beach.

No jumping within 30m of the beach is not a "Dolls" specific rule, it is a fundemental safety rule for every kiting location in the world. It specifically needs enforcing at DP to save kiting in Sydneys South.

Ric and the boys will not be real happy if the entire Dolls crowd suddenly gets kicked out by council and they all move to Kurnell, boy then we gonna see some carnage!

I hope a solution comes out of the meeting on Wednesday otherwise, like I've already predicted, this will be the last season at Dolls Point and possibly the Bay. It's a long drive to Kurnell and even longer to Longreef. Just think about it, a little bit of compromise will go a long way

Good winds,

Hi Jeff

The meeting is not to nut out rules like this, it is to form a club, a club that has the intention to self police the entire Botany bay area.

Thats what I am going to report to Council on Tuesday. I am not going to support the Council implementing any rules, or zones. I hope to be able to defer all of that to allow consultation with the new club and the Council.

Some rules and or zones may have to be implemented, to placate the council and the neighbors, but hopefully none of that will happen without Council contacting the new club for input and ideas first.

Self policing will work in th eyes of Council and the neighbors if there are less or no accidents, and a club is formed as a point of contact for the Council and other concerned parties, like the neighbors and NSW Maritime.

There are a lot of NSW Maritime rules that can be thrown at us Jeff (and others), like the distance off rules, negligent navigation rules, etc. Both of the rules mentioned would easily cover riding too close to shore and other water users or public property, Negligent nav will most certainly cover a runaway kite that causes injury or property damage if the rider was not wearing a leash.

The meeting is about forming a club, and getting some volunteers to be the office bearers, and beach marshalls for want of a better term.
We do not want the meeting to get bogged down with heavy discussions about a lot of "what ifs" or rules.

We want to keep the meeting simple, and to get the desired outcome, a club that can have input with the Authorities and that can be seen to be self policing this great sport in Sydney.

Don't bail out on this because I say something on here that you don't agree with. I do not intend to stand for any title or position within the club, I would be prepared to be a committee member only.

We need kiters to run this club.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Sought out Dolls Point and the problem is solved. Kurnell is the only other location on the Bay where houses are close to the beach and even then there is a wide strip of sand dune after the road. Kurnell is very well governed by the local kiters, many of whom live in houses across the road from the kiting beach.

Brighton does not have any houses near the beach and there is a wide stretch of sand and dunes before reaching a rise to the road. This area appears to also be well controlled by the regular kiters who seem always willing to help new kiters on the beach. Beach goers generally desert the sand area as soon as the wind comes up so there is generally no one other than kiters at Brighton on a very windy day. In lighter winds there are beach goers scattered on a smaller strip of sand running south to the first groyne. There is not enough room to launch and land in these areas so generally no issues exist.

So I go back to my initial point - sought out Dolls Point and the problem will be solved.

Sorry Kiterider and Oxy, but you are very mistaken about where the problem areas are.
Sure Dolls is one of them.
Every other kiteable spot on the bay are the other problem areas.
There have been numerous incidents at Kurnell. That wide strip of sand has a dozen or so rock groins running at right angles to the beach, lots of carnage potential there.
Then there is the "circuit", where riders play russian roulette seeing how close they can land a trick from the beach, but several have had lucky escapes, kites have landed on the road and in the power lines. Kiters have actually landed across the road in peoples properties!!!

Brighton has a 6 lane road less than 2 line lengths from the waters edge, even closer to the road are some sections further south. There have been kites landed on the road, luckily cars were able to stop in time. There was a kite draped across the big green road sign just opposite the old Longreef shop a couple of years ago, and the kiter was severely injured and lucky not to die! Several beachgoers have been hit by kites there, these incidents are on Rockdale councils "list".

Kitepower, hmmm. I live at Dolls pt, so I am a concerned local resident, kiter and double ratepayer in the area. Yep I own Kitepower, and besides spending a lot of time, cleaning and stopping incidents on the beach (thankfully with Ian), and sorting out the damage to the beachfront homes (out of my own pocket), Kitepower actually has a permit to teach there.

The kiters do not have a permit to ride there, nor do they have a permit to screw up there, or demand that the only place to teach in Sydney is moved so that they can continue to be irresponsible and do tricks inside the rock groin. They also do not have a permit to take over the entire beach.

I'm serious, these are issues that Council wants to address, they have mentioned the "zone" word. The entire Botany bay area is one of the most heavily used waterways in Australia, why do a few kiters think they have special rites - big news - they don't.

People have a right to learn without being constantly hassled by crazy riders jumping close to the beach inside the flat water behind the groin. These crazies (Yep I have been one of them at rare times) are actually committing an offence - it's called negligent navigation or something similar.

Kiters do not have a right to ride and jump close to the beach, especially in crowded, shared waterways. If you want that, jump in your car and drive, but be warned, you still do not have a right to ride fast and jump close to any beach anywhere in Australia.

All Dolls (and the entire Bay) needs is some organisation - self policing - and co-operation with Council, who will hopefully consult our new Club before implementing any changes or laws.

Friendly, co-operative, resposible kiters are needed to make this happen, so come to the meeting or join the club.

Weds the 11th, St George 16' Sailing club, Sanoni Ave, Sans Souci, 7.30PM start.

The meeting is about forming a club, not arguing about things we actually have no control over.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

quote:

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Originally posted by kiterider

Sought out Dolls Point and the problem is solved. Kurnell is the only other location on the Bay where houses are close to the beach and even then there is a wide strip of sand dune after the road. Kurnell is very well governed by the local kiters, many of whom live in houses across the road from the kiting beach.

Brighton does not have any houses near the beach and there is a wide stretch of sand and dunes before reaching a rise to the road. This area appears to also be well controlled by the regular kiters who seem always willing to help new kiters on the beach. Beach goers generally desert the sand area as soon as the wind comes up so there is generally no one other than kiters at Brighton on a very windy day. In lighter winds there are beach goers scattered on a smaller strip of sand running south to the first groyne. There is not enough room to launch and land in these areas so generally no issues exist.

So I go back to my initial point - sought out Dolls Point and the problem will be solved.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oxy


I could not agree with you more Dolls is the problem it always has been, thats why I never kite there.

Like I said teaching should not take place there anymore Kitepower has to find a less populated area, and the people that kite there have to take on more responsibility.

Ian is the only one that does anything about the idiots that kite there, I personally think if it wasnt for Ian that place would have been shut down a long time ago.

We all have to make some sacrifices and that includes kitepower as well when it comes to teaching there.And also all these bow riders that ride without leashes at dolls need their head read as Bows are not as safe as people think they are.

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Hi Caelah

Yep it was a good day, could have been better if I had been able to get out too though!!
I did sneak over and watch from a distance and i still saw lots of people riding very close to the beach, the ones I remember were on a yellow cab and a red cab, and a yellow/blue naish C kite.
Everyone just has to stop it, just turn earlier. Where these gys were riding is not flatter, there was no reason to do it.

As for people being apathetic, and the NZ'er maybe more of us need to speak to them, they will then see that it is not an impossible task at all, not when the majority of local kiters are on passionate about keeping access.

It should be mentioned that it is people like you, Col, Cliff, Ric, Graham, Ians, Dan, Kevin, etc, etc, etc, who are willing to speak up, and give up a little of their time that will save the Bay and make a difference.

Thanks to you all.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

The best thing you can do Steve,is print up fliers like they do in Maui.
They give them out at the shops.

They have the local rules and a map of kiting permissable areas.

They have specific rules like:
No windsurfing or kiting before 11.00am

No gybing within 200 ft (60 m?) of the shore etc.

Maybe you could get AKSA to pay for them ?

Or just use them for advertising.

Encourage kiters to give them out at the beach.

If you see someone messing up,you could just put one under their windscreen wipers ?

Kiters! I haven't contributed to these forums in the past, however the issues we now face in Botany Bay represent a serious challenge to our sport....and warrant comments...and action by all of us.

If we don't act cohesively in developing even the most modest self-regulatory model, local Councils won't hesitate to listen to the loudest single complainant, beit a local resident or whomever....and shutdown kiting at one or more location.

We've just seen a similar circumstance to this happen at Grays Point, where a monthly growers' market was cancelled after just its first airing, due to a single traffic complaint. Despite protests from local residents, there's no chance that these markets will ever be reinstated because the local residents have not joined together to present a unified group and confront Sutherland Shire Council.

This Council happens to control Kurnell, Wanda and Boat Harbour...and is equally capable of enforcing a kiting shutdown at these locations as a result of a single, solitary complaint.

So although the kiting issues currently under debate may be more 'visible' at Dolls Point, none of us should be under the impression that a shutdown at Dolls wouldn't or couldn't 'washover' to Kurnell, Wanda and Boat Harbour.

Firstly, we could expect that many 'ex-Dolls' kiters would show up at these venues, including those who are prepared to break ALL the rules, including even the most commonsense ones....which in turn would give Sutherland Shire Council an easy excuse to shutdown one or more of these locations.

If Kurnell and Wanda kiters don't prepare for this inevitability, then we truly do have our heads in the sand.

It's essential that Kurnell and Wanda kiters recognise one simple fact: if we choose to boycott Wednesday's meeting, with the view that it isn't our issue, we will diminish the impact we, as a sporting group, can exert on EITHER Council.

Either Council will take scant notice of just a few people, however if we join together and demonstrate that there are a lot of people with a vested interest in this issue (i.e. not just Steve and the Dolls' kiters), we stand to preserve our rights to kite at a number of locations.... and that it would be preposterous (letalone unsafe) to limit all kiting activity to just one location.

So although it may be inconvenient for Shire-based kiters to drag themselves across Captain Cook Bridge to attend the meeting on Wednesday night, may I make the point that Sutherland Shire Council is sufficiently irrational to act against us, following the most minimal complaint.

Let me give you one example of their capacity for irrationality:
many years ago, I purchased a waterfront property at Sylvania, which was located alongside a public laneway. Many people would buy hamburgers at a well-known nearby shop and mosey down to eat at the water's edge.

I always thought it endearing that Sutherland Shire Council provided a seat for their convenience. So I requested Council to also instal a wheelybin, so picnickers could dispose of their wrappers etc. I was told I would have a response within 7days. I got it early one morning, when a Council truck promptly removed the seat!!!!!!

All Councils are immensely powerful. Don't underestimate the power and potential irrationality of these particular Councils.

And if you don't believe that they can't act against us, then consider the plight of jet-skiiers, who have virtually been banned from everywhere.....and due to their lack of unity, have no way to regain any of their lost rights.

So please showup on Wednesday night. Councils need to know that they are up against a substantial and unified group who are prepared to fight for their rights.

It might seem like a lot to ask: simply show up to be added to the count. It's the least you can do to protect our sport.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

These crazies (Yep I have been one of them at rare times) are actually committing an offence - it's called negligent navigation or something similar

Weds the 11th, St George 16' Sailing club, Sanoni Ave, Sans Souci, 7.30PM start.

The meeting is about forming a club, not arguing about things we actually have no control over.

---

Will membership to the Crazy Club be free ?
If not,
how much cash should the punters bring to the meeting ?

WeLL said Frank See you at the meetingHope more of the Kurnel Boys can make it.Hope to get a Kite in and then come to the meeting.

quote:

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Originally posted by waveslave

quote:

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Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

These crazies (Yep I have been one of them at rare times) are actually committing an offence - it's called negligent navigation or something similar

Weds the 11th, St George 16' Sailing club, Sanoni Ave, Sans Souci, 7.30PM start.

The meeting is about forming a club, not arguing about things we actually have no control over.

---

Will membership to the Crazy Club be free ?
If not,
how much cash should the punters bring to the meeting ?

---

I'll tell ya what's crazy.
Steve is crazy, he freely admits it! lol
I shouldn't laugh....hehehe

Unsustainable growth of kitesurfing on our public beaches is crazy.
Foolishly attempting to mutate a cool niche sport like kiting,
into something resembling flies sitting on a turd.....is crazy.

A sport that really should remain totally obscure for reasons of pure survival,
is now under threat of being force-fed into popular suburban culture and eventual extinction.
[Cause of Death....SUPER-SIZED to hell.]

Overhype-ing by the shopkeepers and overtraining by the gurus will kill the beast.
While the bow-kiter school zoo shame-walks up the beach at snail pace,
all in single-file and kites raised @ 12 o'clock high,
the professional newbie signs up for the instructors course after clocking-up the mandadory 6 months experience.
(about 25 kite sessions).

The kitesurfing machine cranks away at full steam ahead.
Newbies are coming off the production-line like cookies out of the cutter.
Public beach-goers are running for cover.

The faster you fatten the pig,
The sooner it goes to market.
lol
Enjoy.

quote:

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Originally posted by waveslave
The faster you fatten the pig,
The sooner it goes to market.
lol
Enjoy.

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I'm pretty sick of the delays and congestion on the M5. I think we should stop teaching people how to drive. Sydney traffic is just out of control!

Bennie, many of us do both, Dolls in NE, Wanda in SE. If its a blanket ban we lose both!