why are we so ripped off.

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
andrewm
andrewm
WA
243 posts
WA, 243 posts
13 Sep 2007 5:35pm
can someone give me a reason why we pay $2100+ for some kites in australia when I picked the same kite up for $1600 retail overseas?

or a board that retails for $990 in oz i can walk into a shop and pay $700.

even paying customs and shipping im better off waiting a few weeks and shipping gear over.
trevor1
trevor1
WA
598 posts
WA, 598 posts
13 Sep 2007 5:50pm
$1600 ...

That much!
Bowski
Bowski
VIC
204 posts
VIC, 204 posts
13 Sep 2007 7:53pm
You forgot to mention the fact that you sell 1 year old gear for less than 50% of retail!
xtortya
xtortya
WA
322 posts
WA, 322 posts
13 Sep 2007 5:56pm
keep on buying new gear people......i love the savings on 1 year old gear. You guys are real team players
kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
13 Sep 2007 5:58pm
you can cut it down a bit... looking at an internet site, that's their best deal, in a shop RRP is the start point for haggling/you get lessons and a harness with a kite and its cheaper ect.
merman
merman
QLD
431 posts
QLD, 431 posts
13 Sep 2007 8:29pm
andrewm


what kite was it??? and what country did you buy it from?? i was recently in the US and was keen to buy some new gear but found at best approx 150 to 250 bucks less than here in Oz.

and thats minus transport, and/or if any import duties.

how much were import duties?? i thought they were kinda heavy, generally to stop people buying cheap gear OS.

Dont mean to be on ur case, i,m just curious

plus when i got back i bought the gear i wanted from my local Kite shop and the discount i was given (since i,m a return customer) was less than OS cost and didnt justify lugging all the gear back from halfway around the world.


cheers

merman
andrewm
andrewm
WA
243 posts
WA, 243 posts
13 Sep 2007 6:50pm
im just curious why I can pick up a kite overseas with no discount for $500 less than at my local shop which would give me a max 5-10% discount. sure the difference is less if you buy 3 kites every season.



carbine
carbine
WA
1450 posts
WA, 1450 posts
13 Sep 2007 7:17pm
I don't really know, but no one is making a fortune out of it in Australia.

heres my take on it

import duty
gst
freight
customs charges/freight handlers etc

all before the gear gets to a distributor.

then heaps of costs for distributors
Standard business costs rent, vehicles, wages, power, communications costs, depreciation etc.
Insurance covering end user use of the gear.
Advertising.
Travel costs going to dealers, events etc.
Full sponsorships
Demo gear.

so suddenly 40% markup turns into like a 10% margin. What if the 40% markup was 30%? 0% margin. And what about risk? in Kitesurfing u have an industry leading brand one year out of business the next. Brand life cycles are like 3 seasons! I would want some good return for all the risk taken.

Then we move onto shops.
All those costs again minus a few/ add a few.

40% markup turns into not alot.

Btw im guessing about markups but should be something like that, no?

now why does it cost more here then america or wherever.

Distributors and bigger shops have lower costs overall, they therefore can work on lower markups. Kitesurfing is prolly a very elastic market, ie drop the price and u make heaps more sales!
vishy
vishy
WA
451 posts
WA, 451 posts
13 Sep 2007 8:27pm
Don't forget a lot of the Aussie distributors etc. had to order their gear back in April/May, so maybe exchange rates play a part in it?

I have noticed that the overseas shops, that tend to sell kites slightly cheaper compared to Aus ,seem to be a lot larger than your local kite shop in Aus. So maybe they operate on a different business plan, more kites gaurenteed to go out the door allows them to lower the prices a bit?

Carbine raised some solid points as well, you also need to think about service as well(think the shops/distributors stocking bladders for ever year/size/model of every kite they sell!)

Thanks
Matt
PS support your local
jev7337
jev7337
QLD
460 posts
QLD, 460 posts
13 Sep 2007 10:28pm
OS shops have the same overhead costs as OZ shops in regards to import duty customs etc. Most of em have to import it from some other country as well.

Why it costs more here? Duno.
I put it down to competition. There are less shops here in OZ than in most places in Europe or US. Therefore, they can get away with higher prices. But I could be wrong

Then again have a look at anything else that you compare, from cars to PCs or even a bottle of wine. Now figure this, I can buy any bottle of Australian wine in Switzerland for less money than I pay here at Safeway. I can't see the logic in that.

Anyway, it looks good for the weekend and I'm off kiting
GranG
GranG
WA
260 posts
WA, 260 posts
13 Sep 2007 8:39pm
economies of scale... unfortunately the number of kites sold in Oz is relatively low to Europe, US or even South Africa(1)...


(1) No factual references for this, but 100's of Euros pump into Cape Town after Len10 and Hadlow every year and all buy new stuff as traditionally it has been a little cheaper... most days in summer you can see 100+ kites out at Cape Town's kite beach alone... Tarifa more kites, etc...
cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
13 Sep 2007 9:12pm
quote:
Originally posted by GranG

economies of scale... unfortunately the number of kites sold in Oz is relatively low to Europe, US or even South Africa(1)...


(1) No factual references for this, but 100's of Euros pump into Cape Town after Len10 and Hadlow every year and all buy new stuff as traditionally it has been a little cheaper... most days in summer you can see 100+ kites out at Cape Town's kite beach alone... Tarifa more kites, etc...



I think your right with it’s mostly to do with economies of scale.

Think how many kites your average kite shop sells in Australia. Or to dumb it down say in w.a which probably is a good representation of the market because of the local conditions..... 100? 200? 300? Kites sold per shop? ....are there 3 thousand kite surfers in Perth and surrounding area's (lol)? And now let’s say that 20 percent buy new kit each year? 600 for what 5 kite shops? lets say they buy 2 kites each because of the new kites depower that’s 1200 kites divided into 5 kite shops 240 kites per shop? So now they markup by 500 dollars per kite...

120k per shop... bastards your right we are being ripped off!

Personally I would rather have fewer kiters and pay more for kit than other way round...but then again I can afford new gear every year...and kite in a town that only has at most 8 kiters on the water at a time! Edited: this is because of the high number of great whites down here!
Gybesports
Gybesports
NSW
193 posts
NSW, 193 posts
14 Sep 2007 1:03am
So 120k per shop minus 30k for rent 20k insurance, 9% interest on business loan 30k to employ the shop gumby to rip you off and accounting, credit card fees and trade-in mistakes that sit in the shop for every etc. That leaves a net salary for the kite shop of 10k per annum - wow must be a great life you can have the aussie dream on that nope.

Support your local they are in it for the love.

I hear a lot of guys say this sort of stuff who are the same guys talking about there margin loans on their share portfolios I can tell you kite businesses are a lot riskier. I challenge you all to try doing a business plan that will make a decent ROI profit for the investment plus your same salary you are getting now and I bet you, you can't make it work.

If a kite company makes 10000 kites and has only $100 margin thats only 1 mil to do R and d, distribution to all the diferent country's etc etc. This industry is way small.
How much should a plasma really cost in materials proabbly only about $50

Buzz
Buzz
NSW
319 posts
NSW, 319 posts
14 Sep 2007 1:28am
Kite shops do provide good service though ... and don't forget mostly they have to order stock before hand to provide immediate service (it's great to be able to walk-in and buy exactly what you want off-the-shelf and not having to wait for it to come 'in')... that means they usually have to have an over-supply - at the end of the season they could/usually do have a few kites un-sold which they have to sell close to cost price just to get rid of 'em before the next season's range comes thru ... it must be pretty tough I can imagine...

If a kite company makes 10000 kites and has only $100 margin... I think for sure they make a little more mark-up than that, otherwise they'd be out business...

I'm still interested to here from andrewm in reply to:


what kite was it???
and what country did you buy it from??
did you buy from a large shop via the net ?
frieght costs to Oz?
any import duty ?

user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
14 Sep 2007 5:30am
quote:
Originally posted by andrewm

can someone give me a reason why we pay $2100+ for some kites in australia when I picked the same kite up for $1600 retail overseas?

or a board that retails for $990 in oz i can walk into a shop and pay $700.

even paying customs and shipping im better off waiting a few weeks and shipping gear over.



You are right.

The reason is that shops like to make $500 on the sale of a kite.

I know this for a fact. No arguments.
lovey
lovey
NSW
177 posts
NSW, 177 posts
14 Sep 2007 7:49am
not so much that they LIKE to make $500 bucks per kite, they HAVE to make that, and more just to keep in business.

Everyone who roasts small business for making such "massive fortunes" should have a go at it - and they'll soon see how much it sucks.
tobes
tobes
NSW
1000 posts
NSW, 1000 posts
14 Sep 2007 8:47am
Do you feel "ripped off"?
Let's say my kite gear depreciates $1000 per year.
Maybe I'll get around 100 sessions per year.
10 bucks a ride, no lift tickets, cheap maintainance...
Kiting is cheaper than a few other thrills I've tried.
The adrenaline/$ ratio.

On the other hand, if new top quality new kites were closer to $1000 than $2000 I might be able to afford them. Until then I'm on last seasons gear.
Bigwavedave
Bigwavedave
QLD
2057 posts
QLD, 2057 posts
14 Sep 2007 8:48am
If you gotta pay a dude 30 grand a year to work in your shop and you have to pay $500 bucks a week rent thats $55,000 before you even start paying insurance, freight etc etc etc.

If we make $500 per kite (rarely don't forget Johnny gets 10%) thats 110 kites a year before we even get to feed our own family.

Kite season is only 8 months long so thats 3 kites a week before we break even on rent and wages. Add vehicle, written off demos and trade-ins, insurance (1000+), licences (2000+), business expenses, phone, power etc etc.

Before you rip on the shop owners for trying to make a profit, have a look at their books. It ain't lucrative I can tell you.

Every dollar you screw the price down is the dollar that the owner uses to live on.

Everyone likes to save a buck. Overseas shops can spread their costs over a larger turnover cos the kiting population is bigger and their costs are lower.

Think how you'd feel if your boss decided to import cheap labour from overseas and didn't need you anymore? How would you pay your mortgage?




Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
14 Sep 2007 9:06am
1 you don't have o do that LF for example cheaper here tha anywhere else in the world
2 other people have chunked down the costs to the retailer for you
3 Try another seasonal sport for example skiing (more people ski and snowboard than kite so there should be more competition).Expensive gear ,expensive lift tickets and accom ,food and then your week or weekend can be ruined by crap weather and crap snow
4 Or try surfing .You can get a good brand new stick for around $700 and then fight it out at your local break for the odd break
Awaken
Awaken
QLD
128 posts
QLD, 128 posts
14 Sep 2007 10:47am
so this tired old debate lifts its head again.As an ex kite shop owner let me tell you that there is very little margin in kiting gear, period.And i dont think that there is any shop in the country that is able to survive on kite gear alone apart from maybe kitepower who covers all aspects of kites not just kiteboarding.If you find it cheaper elsewhere fine,but dont rag on the owner hes just trying to help establish a sport in his local area and feed his family at the same time.
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
14 Sep 2007 9:28am
The punters complaining about big margins and profits from any small business have obviously not owned a small business themselves.

If only it were so simple as to be able to pocket the mark up. Costs are the killer and take up a massive chunk of the sell price. If it were so easy to make a fortune in retail and service businesses, why is it most small businesses fold within 5 years?

Support your local small businesses if you want them to stay around for your benefit in the future.

Good winds,

NSW, 4382 posts
14 Sep 2007 4:31pm
quote:
Originally posted by Awaken

so this tired old debate lifts its head again.As an ex kite shop owner let me tell you that there is very little margin in kiting gear, period.And i dont think that there is any shop in the country that is able to survive on kite gear alone apart from maybe kitepower who covers all aspects of kites not just kiteboarding.If you find it cheaper elsewhere fine,but dont rag on the owner hes just trying to help establish a sport in his local area and feed his family at the same time.



Nope, just check out the range of wettys, clothes, accessories etc that we have to stock to pay the wages, rent, insurances, permits, vehicles, fuel, ASIC fees, ATO Fees, DOC fees, registration fees, telephones, internet, office supplies, equipment maintenance, updating work out equipment, clothing, cleaning, advertising, workers comp, superannuation, GST, company and personla tax, accounting fees, software, COG's - cost of goods sold(yeah the kites are a cost too, which nearly everyone has overlooked). Thats probably less than 50% of the list of actual costs in my business, and at the end is the NETT PROFIT.

Looking at just the retail markup or margin is really pointless.

Do the same individuals that raise this topic every so often try to bargain at the supermarket, or the petrol station, Maccas???
Doubt it, but I would like to see them try, LOL's.

No one is making a fortune in the kite game, Kitepower included, we do it because we want to, we like to kite, and we like to help people that kite, and we can make an average living doing it if we work hard (60hrs per week each for me and my partner) ourselves, thats me my wife, and my 2 sons. As well as the excellent service and work from the 4 other people who depend on KP for a living. This topic is past its use by date.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve
meerkat
meerkat
WA
644 posts
WA, 644 posts
14 Sep 2007 2:46pm
If $2000 is too expensive then just buy secondhand or slightly less established brands new to the market. There are also plenty of guys refreshing their gear every year. I just sold a brand new kite(used 5 times) for a grand less than brand new. Is a great kite but didn't suit my current conditions.

Support your local dealer, the guy who very kindly loans out his brand new gear as demos to all and sundry gets my vote. I am sure they do ok, but thats the point of running the business in the first place.
NJPornstar
NJPornstar
WA
790 posts
WA, 790 posts
14 Sep 2007 6:24pm
I agree with all of the above. Business is tight.

And just think a large percentage of what you pay for a kite goes overseas establishing foreign businesses else where.
andrewm
andrewm
WA
243 posts
WA, 243 posts
14 Sep 2007 6:59pm
I wasnt trying to imply the kite shops are cheating us here.



I would pay $50, 100 or even a little more extra to support my local shop.

but when I can walk into a shop overseas and pay many hundreds less straight off the shelf then I feel a bit cheated. This is in a first world country so I imagine overheads would be very similair to oz.






xshore
xshore
NSW
267 posts
NSW, 267 posts
15 Sep 2007 1:18am
Mate say it as you have "Why are we so ripped off" and stand by by it or don't shoot at the retailers from the hip as you have dude as it does no one any good.

As Steve has stated most of us do it initialy for the passion and most of the time it is 7 days a week 12 to 14 hours a day to make the passion into a living.
Amongst making a living we support employees, real estate agents, land lords, printers, SEABREEZE, local council through rates and permits, telecomunication companies, printers, fuel companies, banks, airlines, shipping companies, the TAX man, the Newspaper, Kiteboarder mag, AKSA, Mechanics, Maritme Authorities, National Parks, Surf Life Saving Clubs, Charities, IT companies, Local Kiters, Dune Care and the Australian economy in general before we even look at putting our own needs and family first.

Now tell me how you are supporting the local community or Australia by buying overseas and we all can put this thread to rest or honestly answer the question " Did you call or go into any shop in Australia for advice before going on your overseas trip to buy the kite in mention?"

Sorry dude if I sound hard on this but I believe what I am writing is fair reality of life.

Kind regards

Glen

user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
15 Sep 2007 5:11am
OK. The shops are not ripping us off.

But it is a valid question from Andrewm.

Why are kites much cheaper overseas ??

So,should we be blaming the midle man and the importers ?
rooey
rooey
QLD
498 posts
QLD, 498 posts
15 Sep 2007 8:00am
Everything on the huge world markets is 'massproduced',as a builder I see the building industry is now flooded with Asian timber, hardware paraphynalia,etc.Paying outrageous prices,with the quality just not there i.e substandard wood,screws,nails is pare for the course.We must remember that considering all facetts of kite manufacture they are probably not that expensive,comparing with treadly's, golf clubs,diving gear, surfing goods etc. Considering engineering,materials,construction labour, marketing and proffit,as most kite shop proprieters aren't makeing a huge proffit from them,especially after haggling the price with ya average hardened kite buyer....Roo
JB
JB
NSW
2232 posts
JB JB
NSW, 2232 posts
15 Sep 2007 8:05am
Interesting topic, preparing myself to be shot down!

You will always be able to find shops who are willing to sell out of their area/country for a very little price, either via internet sales or what ever. This is a way of making another small sale that they probably would not have had anyway, so it's like a bit of cream on the top. What it does do though is take a sale away from your local shop who has a proper overhead and bills to pay. As for the overseas shops, a lot of the time they are small importer retailers, this means they have both margins to play with, and often take advantage of this. Normally an international supplier will cut supply to a shop if they hear of them putting products out onto the market at rediculous prices, as they know, every one needs to make money to survive.

Kitesurfing is an extremely hard market, your local shop is not making a mint every time a kite goes out the door, most of the time there just paying the bills if there lucky. Most of these guys have shops because they love the sport. If you think of all the time your local dealer spends helping you make repairs or technical information, or helping out a newby, and price this out at $1 a minute, thats pretty much what it is costing the shop, and thats with out the staff wages.

Although it is great to get a good deal, you've also got to remember that it could be killing your local shop. And your local shop is often the guys that give you all the service, and most of the time for free! So if anyone is getting ripped off it's the shops and dealers out there, trying their best to survive and service a great sport in a way that is beneficial to everyone and will ensure the survival of the industry. Think about how many windsurfing shops have closed down over the past 10-15 years, kiteboarding is heading the same way, and it's even harder now because of the internet. Loyalty is huge, and most of the time your shop will reward this with great service.

So maybe think twice before you go online, or overseas to purchase a cheap kite. I am sure you won't get the service you'd normally get from your local dealer, and you can have the known saticfaction that you have helped the Australian kiteboarding industry grow, the same industry that built the AKSA which insures you all, and helps in the running of events, and works hard to make sure that the sport is not banned in areas etc... I cause worth helping if you ask me.

A big high five the the Aussie Shops out there, making this sport what it is!

Regards,

JB
Blownaway
Blownaway
QLD
776 posts
QLD, 776 posts
15 Sep 2007 9:03am
Support your local I say
At the end of the day its better to have friends than save a few bucks an if you support the same crew over time I am sure you will get looked after better $$ an get a loan kite or whatever while waiting for repairs not to mention beer an bbq,s an trips here an there,well worth it in the long run
taxi
taxi
QLD
416 posts
QLD, 416 posts
15 Sep 2007 9:39am
I do"nt agree blownaway , not all dealers look after return client l.
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply