why are we so ripped off.

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poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
16 Sep 2007 5:39pm
ahhh......lol
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
16 Sep 2007 6:00pm
Wink.
'Cyberia' as in "internerding".
Bigwavedave
Bigwavedave
QLD
2057 posts
QLD, 2057 posts
17 Sep 2007 7:46am
I have been riding a FF Ion2 for a couple of sessions. Overpriced?
I was happy to pay a little extra for the extra build quality and bells and whistles.

Back to the debate- overseas (US) kite stores don't have the same costs. Our minimum wage is way higher, our compo and super is higher, our freight is higher, our taxes are higher.

Wages, taxes and rent are the three biggest costs in an Australian business. Once you pay them there is little left to play with. But the smile on the face of a new kiter when he's finished his lesson and bought his kit.....worth millions!!!
Awaken
Awaken
QLD
128 posts
QLD, 128 posts
17 Sep 2007 8:17am
quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

quote:
Originally posted by Awaken

so this tired old debate lifts its head again.As an ex kite shop owner let me tell you that there is very little margin in kiting gear, period.And i dont think that there is any shop in the country that is able to survive on kite gear alone apart from maybe kitepower who covers all aspects of kites not just kiteboarding.If you find it cheaper elsewhere fine,but dont rag on the owner hes just trying to help establish a sport in his local area and feed his family at the same time.



Nope, just check out the range of wettys, clothes, accessories etc that we have to stock to pay the wages, rent, insurances, permits, vehicles, fuel, ASIC fees, ATO Fees, DOC fees, registration fees, telephones, internet, office supplies, equipment maintenance, updating work out equipment, clothing, cleaning, advertising, workers comp, superannuation, GST, company and personla tax, accounting fees, software, COG's - cost of goods sold(yeah the kites are a cost too, which nearly everyone has overlooked). Thats probably less than 50% of the list of actual costs in my business, and at the end is the NETT PROFIT.

Looking at just the retail markup or margin is really pointless.

Do the same individuals that raise this topic every so often try to bargain at the supermarket, or the petrol station, Maccas???
Doubt it, but I would like to see them try, LOL's.

No one is making a fortune in the kite game, Kitepower included, we do it because we want to, we like to kite, and we like to help people that kite, and we can make an average living doing it if we work hard (60hrs per week each for me and my partner) ourselves, thats me my wife, and my 2 sons. As well as the excellent service and work from the 4 other people who depend on KP for a living. This topic is past its use by date.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve


Steve I wasnt having a go at your business,all i was trying to state is that as a retailer the majority of your business is kiting related compared to many other retailers who do surf,wake,skate,bmx as well to diversify.You actually have my admiration because it does take passion to do.
Blaster
Blaster
WA
501 posts
WA, 501 posts
17 Sep 2007 6:36am
Who's seen the limited edition SOF-X Latitude kite in latest KBM. It's got Australia writen over it, are they trying to give the impression they are Australian company by doing this. Can someone in the industry tell me where these kites are made please, They look good. Any proud aussie would fly that on a overseas holiday.
Maximum
Maximum
WA
37 posts
WA, 37 posts
17 Sep 2007 6:59am
quote:
Originally posted by Blaster

Who's seen the limited edition SOF-X Latitude kite in latest KBM. It's got Australia writen over it, are they trying to give the impression they are Australian company by doing this. Can someone in the industry tell me where these kites are made please, They look good. Any proud aussie would fly that on a overseas holiday.



Yeah i saw that too whats with that bronw nosing patriotism??
They should know we aussies don't like in your face patriotism like the yanks!
They are made in China, just like all the rest of the kites

Imax
NSW, 4382 posts
17 Sep 2007 11:29am
quote:
Originally posted by Awaken



Steve I wasnt having a go at your business,all i was trying to state is that as a retailer the majority of your business is kiting related compared to many other retailers who do surf,wake,skate,bmx as well to diversify.You actually have my admiration because it does take passion to do.



Sorry mate, my reply was not directed at you at all, it just stimulated me to make a response to the general trend of the thread.
We work hard to keep Kitepower afloat, its not easy when lots of people take a short term quick fix approach to purchasing kite gear, or when people look at shops like kitepower and think "there's an easy way to make money"
Then they get hold of some minority brands and discount the hell out of them thinking that at some time in the future they will be able to put up their prices and make a living.
There are some good examples of people who take these approaches in this thread, however most people don't and are happy to support their local full service kite stores.
This might help some people get over their fear of paying too much as well.
http://www.kitepower.com.au/cart.php?target=main&page=price_promise

Did you have a shop in Gladstone?

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve
Karve
Karve
VIC
197 posts
VIC, 197 posts
17 Sep 2007 11:43am
You have to be careful when comparing to US prices as all their prices are display excluding tax. So you can take 10% off the aussie price straight away when doing the comparison.

I have just been looking on the web for US prices for a 12.5m ION2 complete with 5 line bar (standard on all OZ ION2's)

I found one for 1674.98 USD excluding tax

converting to AUD at a rate of 1 USD = 1.215 AUD (this is the average rate over the last 7 days from the australian customs, the rate you have to pay taxes and import duties on) gives

1675 x 1.215 = 2035.10 AUD for the US ION 2 12.5m complete

RRP in OZ for same kite is 2159 AUD including 10% GST

for a fair comparison we should deduct the 10% GST as the US kite is exclusive of tax.

Therefore the OZ kite is 1962.73 AUD exclusive of GST

That makes the OZ kite cheaper by $72 AUD and you wont have to pay the shipping from the US. The exchange rate is good at the moment to pay in US dollars, but it is still cheaper to buy in Australia. Buying clearance stock or discounted stock cannot be used as a comparison of prices and accusing Australian dealers and distributors of ripping you off.

Can you show the website that offers the $2100+ kites for $1600?

In terms of warranty on Flexifoil kites brought abroad. I will still look after them, but it takes a little longer as I have to confirm details with the foreign store.

Carbine as for the ION2 being over priced check out some of the competitor brands.

Cab X-bow3 12m $2099
Naish Helix 12m $2149
Best Waroo Pro 13m $2268
Ozone Edge 13m $2181
North Rhino 12m $2099
Flexifoil Ion2 12.5m $2159


I don't think the price is too high in relation to the others here, do you?







Awaken
Awaken
QLD
128 posts
QLD, 128 posts
17 Sep 2007 2:34pm
yep that was me.but the story is too long for on here.
bobjaan
bobjaan
WA
314 posts
WA, 314 posts
17 Sep 2007 4:11pm
Gonna add my two cents worth.

It has to be about economies of scale. Kite shops will charge what the market will pay reletive to what they need to earn to keep their shops running. Simple maths, means no. of kites sold X price equals profit. WA and the rest of Oz do not sell any were as many kites as europe South Africa etc, so therefore have to charge more for the kite.

Some countries will always be more expensive than other, I bought a rowing machine here for $2000 in the UK (where they are made) they cost $2500 go figure.

Remember you could be into wake boarding where a season pass on a lake is $3000 alone, before you fork out for the boat and any gear.

Go riding.
AaronB
AaronB
QLD
50 posts
QLD, 50 posts
17 Sep 2007 6:14pm
Tak your best quote to local shop and ask them to beat it. Often works!
bolgo
bolgo
WA
912 posts
WA, 912 posts
17 Sep 2007 5:17pm
might all be well and good if you had a good local kite shop
dont rate many here in perth
no loyalty or regular customer rewards, not looking for much, a free t shirt or some acknowledgement

so why not look for cheapest deal
some i know can source them for 1/2 oz rrp, saving pays for the holiday

kiteforum showed worldwide sales were 115,000 per annum
not a big market really
RM
RM
21 posts
RM RM
21 posts
18 Sep 2007 11:36am
"Tak your best quote to local shop and ask them to beat it. Often works!"

Maybe but in Sydney rumours abound regarding price fixing and pressure applied to anyone stepping out of line. Seems like all sorts of quiet deals are done. Half my stuff comes from overseas. We are all keeping litle secrets because we are afraid our channels will get shut down. Frankly I'd rather go to the local shop but with so much political/backstabbing crap flying about seemingly between distys/retailers and kiters themselves they can all shove it and I'll do it alone. All I want to do is kite.
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
18 Sep 2007 2:20pm
Ummm, I haven't read the whole thread but has anyone suggested buying 2nd hand?

Early in the season last year, I bought a 13m and 9m pair with bar and lines with only one season (not even that on the 13m) under the belt. They set me back $750 total! Hard to beat really. I had a ripper time last year and will get at least one more season this year out of em (maybe even more).

If your a not a gear snob or needing to be the poseur kid on the block, then let someone with these afflictions pay the cash for you, and buy their almost new last season (all of a sudden deemed unusable??) gear.

Love my kites and love a bargain. I obviously don't give a fig about image or having the latest toys - I just need good enough for me gear.
trevor1
trevor1
WA
598 posts
WA, 598 posts
18 Sep 2007 3:17pm
did you buy a sh!t brand Funky?
Tonewolf
Tonewolf
382 posts
382 posts
18 Sep 2007 3:27pm
Get funky is on it, I've also saved a packet on second hand gear. And been ripped off blind with new gear.

I'm surprised this thread has gone this far.... open a can of woop ass!

Idea for next meaningless thread anyone?

Bite me!
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
18 Sep 2007 3:31pm
Ripped off.....LOL
Ask the kids in the sweat shops in Asia who is being ripped off....
colinwill78
colinwill78
VIC
1395 posts
VIC, 1395 posts
18 Sep 2007 5:45pm
quote:
Originally posted by poor relative

Ripped off.....LOL
Ask the kids in the sweat shops in Asia who is being ripped off....



they said i was
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
19 Sep 2007 11:06am
quote:
did you buy a sh!t brand Funky?


Thanks for asking so succinctly Trev...

Some folks don't rate it as the best brand around and some would even say they are cr@p. It must be very hard for these chaps to not bump into things all the time with their head stuck up their date!

For the record the kites suit me perfectly and are more than capable for most folks who don't need to be the cool kid in the sand box.

surfoil66
surfoil66
NSW
89 posts
NSW, 89 posts
24 Sep 2007 10:08pm
"why are we so rippedoff"

for a start do not blame your local retailer. he does not set the retail price. sure he makes money why shouldn't he.
the problem lies with the suppliers and their pricing policy.not to say that they shouldn't make money either.
its the way they do business that effects us all.
they {them whatever} set a retail price. why else does every store in Australia advertise the same price for the same model.?? $1799,$1899 etc have a look at websites selling kites every one has the same "RRP" "RECOMENDED RETAIL PRICE".
Why? cause the retailer just plods along and prices the product accordingly as is suggested by their supplier.
what wouldbe better for us all if the suppliers charged the shops a nett wholesale price and didn'tsuggest any retail price.this way different shops would have different prices. some would work on a 50%mark up others might just add on a dollar figure say $500 other stores a 60% mark up another shop 42.75% whatever they want. instead they are told what is the "RRP" and obediently they obey in fear of having their supply stopped.
the suppliers should stay out of retailing,leave that to the retail shops, the guys that actually do the hard yards cop everyones BS,the smart operaters will survive for sure.
and for us kite buyers we will see the price of kites change no more $1799 from every shop but savvy buyers will see prices spread over a range of prices thus the $1799 kite will be priced from $1500 up to $2000,maybe even cheaper or even more exspensive at the other end.
cheaper kites will in the end see more sold by the suppliers and why should they care if they still get their standard wholesale price
Gybesports
Gybesports
NSW
193 posts
NSW, 193 posts
25 Sep 2007 11:09am
Retailing is changing for all of us. There is a fundamental shift in retailing happening that will see different business models. One of the premsies of this thread is that bricks and morta proves that a shop is good and viable, but in reality it adds considerably to running costs with extra wages, rent and insurances needed that add to the costs needed to calculate the margin. By a fundamental change in the business model ie online or mobile the industry could reduce the retail price of kites but it would not necessarily increase the number of kites sold an so it doesn't make sense.
while you are all ebaying think of how many of you used to read the trading post 10 years back, or how many people have used a mobile dog wash or lawn mowing or car servicing business. They are great businesses that changed their model and gave better service by not having the burden of fixed location and rent hanging over their head.

user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
25 Sep 2007 3:13pm
Fundamental shift...business models !

What a bullsh1t way of saying "backyarders" or."out of the boot of a car"
Tonewolf
Tonewolf
382 posts
382 posts
25 Sep 2007 4:03pm
It's not a b^llspit idea...its a great idea.
People achieve success with this kind of venture every day.
Respect for retailers is everything, doesn't matter where they operate from.


Bite me!
Bigwavedave
Bigwavedave
QLD
2057 posts
QLD, 2057 posts
25 Sep 2007 6:05pm
Tonewolf making some sense???

I must have been transported into another dimension at the beach today!!!
jordy
jordy
SA
451 posts
SA, 451 posts
25 Sep 2007 7:38pm
This is the way I see it. Whenever I buy a kite, and on Friday I am about to buy 2 new ones, if you want a discount, then the fair amount to ask for is 10% discount rounded down to the nearest hundred.
For example- You buy a new kite at $1900. Take off 10%, that makes it $1710, then round it back to $1700. You have gotten your discount, the kite store still has a decent margin and everyone is happy!!!
I think thats a fair amount to ask, especially if you are buying 2 or more kites anyway or a full kit of gear, board and harness etc.
rooey
rooey
QLD
498 posts
QLD, 498 posts
25 Sep 2007 8:31pm
this topic just keeps on goin......whats a couple a hunj$,its like lookin for cheap fuel,the longer you drive lookin for that cheap servo the less the benefit,if ya kite you can afford to, so stop winging about givin ya local kite shop your money...haven't met any dealer yet that doesn't earn there cut from a sale and does'nt stand chatting for ages about the ins and outs,ups and downs of the goods you are considering buying,ya can burn $100 staying at the local too long....get it in perspective tight ass kiters, compared to other sporting goods,kite gear is not that expensive....if you think it's too dear then try another sport!
user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
25 Sep 2007 7:46pm
quote:
Originally posted by Tonewolf

It's not a b^llspit idea...its a great idea.
People achieve success with this kind of venture every day.
Respect for retailers is everything, doesn't matter where they operate from.


Bite me!



I didn't say it was a bullsh1t idea!
I said it was BS giving it fancy names like "business model"

Call a spade a spade! Its"cut out the middle man"
Gybesports
Gybesports
NSW
193 posts
NSW, 193 posts
26 Sep 2007 12:17am
User
As you will read back I am supporting the shops, beleive me as an ex shop owner since 1991 I know the problems and the rewards but I have chosen not to go into a lease and stand in the shop on Sunday's when I should be with my very young family. I'll get flamed for my choices but many people operate businesses without the burden of a lease and do very well.
My comment was aimed generally at retail. The demise of the westfield type shopping center will be the start ofthe shift toeither buy local or buy online. The big retailers will suffer as transport and environmental cost start to take effect on the buying habits of consumers. As i said in my last post. Support your local shop and store owner, there is no big margins in kite boarding so haggle for a deal but rememeber that last $50 is probably the money that actually goes in the shop owners pocket and he needs to feed his family.
Robbo2099
Robbo2099
WA
753 posts
WA, 753 posts
26 Sep 2007 10:12am
The bottom line is that people running a kite shop have to make a decent living like everyone else -- if you don't make a profit you can't stay in business. Unfortunately, everything is more expensive in Australia than overseas. But look around at what you get for that. The beaches, traffic, pollution, and most other things overseas(with the exception of the roads in Sydney!) are crap compared to Australia. We're a fair ways from everything, the market is heaps smaller than most other places and it costs a lot to get stuff here. I don't know any kite shop owners driving Ferraris to suggest that kiters are getting ripped off. With all the expenses, taxes, and time that it takes to run a shop I'm still amazed how anyone can turn a profit in this game, given the few number of kites and boards sold every year in Australia. Any surf shop owner knows that almost all of the profit they turn comes from clothes, not from surf gear, so given how little clothing kite shops sell they must be making heaps less profit than a surf shop. Add to that the cost of support for defective, damaged gear and warranty service, they must be waving a magic wand somewhere to come out ahead at the end of the year. If you buy a cheap kite somewhere overseas and expect the local guy to handle the warranty, service and all that then you're asking for bad karma if you expect to get it for free. (and a lot of the shops even do this for free, even though they don't make a cent off it.) These guys work hard, they don't take home a lot of $$s at the end of the day, and my experience is that for the most part the after-sale service is excellent (certainly when compared to most other businesses) and they're usually working when the rest of us are kiting, so for my 2c worth I reckon they deserve everything they make here in Oz and they've got my respect and support for taking the risk to do what they enjoy, and having the balls and dedication to do it as a profession. I say support these guys whenever possible.
Gybesports
Gybesports
NSW
193 posts
NSW, 193 posts
26 Sep 2007 12:42pm
Very well said Robbo.
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