Forums > Windsurfing Wave sailing

Speed Loop again... but this time it's for real :) !

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Created by Manuel7 > 9 months ago, 8 Jun 2017
Stuthepirate
WA, 3333 posts
1 May 2018 7:08AM
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Manuel7 said..
I've been stuck and might have found out why. You guys were right!



It's only taken you 10 months and 151 posts to work that out!?

Manuel7
171 posts
1 May 2018 10:05PM
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Well, it took me getting mildly hurt and brain freeze on a few attempts to realize it!

I am not (ever?) bailing on port, very often on starboard (favorable jump but not for forwards). Curiously, I've always been more upright on port than starboard.

Perfect ramps were hiding an underlying problem, I shouldn't need them at this stage.

So now I'm trying them off of nothing really, just stomping hard on the back of the board trying to stay upright, front leg up, and keeping the rig up and forward at the same time with front arm straight.

Yesterday I had two good attempts. One where the position at the pop was very good and another where the tucking in was good. When this happens my body likes and gets more confident.

Manuel7
171 posts
5 Jun 2018 9:19PM
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With more comfortable winds and waterstate, I seem to be back at it :D !

Here is what I'm aiming for...



And this is what happened in 11-19 knots, my body is a bit more ahead of the board than in the past.
Now it seems that my sail should be way more forward with my camera pointing down at the water.



This is an earlier example where I tuck the board under nicely but my body isn't sent forward and ahead of the board.



I'm planning on concentrating on sending the sail forward and twisting my hips to the back and possibly delaying the sheeting in action so I can focus on following my front arm rather than pulling in with the back one.
Does that seem like a good plan?

Manuel7
171 posts
7 Jun 2018 1:32PM
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Big day yesterday !!! WIth near perfect conditions condices parfaites maybe a touch too choppy, but we won't complain, I think I was able to get about 15 attempts. I got back to my level of last september but I'm feeling much better about it!!! I felt like I shouldn't jump! It kills the rotation, instead, I simply push hard on the back foot, heading downwind and leaning forward with an opened sail. The opened sail lets the board loose, if not it sends the board back down which we want only after we throw our body forward. This part for me was very difficult to execute.

So, no bails, all attempts rotated, no board damage, no stuck front foot. I don't have anymore fear to set them up, except when going fast or over a larger wave at least for me. I find that the nose of the board touching the water no longer hinder the rotation since I'm already on the other side despite being very low.

Below my 2 best tries for the day... frankly, I almost cried, I was so happy because I felt like I am there. If it weren't for the fatigue and the lack of commitment near the end, I would have waterstarted out of one of those. Tomorrow, maybe?!?!?!!!!!! WOWOWOWOOWW Best day of my life :D



Sorry for the chopped off head, too many attempts, popped the cam off... :D !

Jman
VIC, 846 posts
7 Jun 2018 7:58PM
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Looking good just throw the rig forward!!!

Manuel7
171 posts
7 Jun 2018 9:40PM
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For sure I will do my best!!!

Earlier attempts had a bit more forward motion but not as fast or "raised."
These ones pictured above had good lift but not the commitment of the first attempts!!! Today it is!!!!!

gorgesailor
68 posts
8 Jun 2018 2:23AM
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Good to see you back at it in earnest! However.... look at your arms! ... still seem much too bent...

NordRoi
240 posts
11 Jun 2018 1:38AM
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Practice jumping and being over your board and not far back. Will ne way easier!

Manuel7
171 posts
13 Jun 2018 1:01AM
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Yes I actually straighten my front arm at first but pull on it once in the air.
On the last few sessions, I have been keeping it straight, better!

Now onto doing that and tuck my rear leg and look back sheeting in with all I got.
It's funny but from Day 1 to now I must be at 70% from waterstarting, maybe more?
With nearly 900 attempts, each attempt counted as 0.077% improvement. Ouaou :D !!!!!
Actually the first 2-3 are the most productive, then later in the day, nothing is usually done better.
What can be better is the setup (the wave, the speed) but the move is usually less and less committed with time.

Hoping to close the remaining 25-30% in the next couple of weeks.

Manuel7
171 posts
21 Jun 2018 9:40PM
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1. This is achievable as a first stage (kind of :D !)



2. Ideally, what I would like to do, so beautiful



3. Quite flat water spin loop, very well executed, great pop and sail control.

Ken29
WA, 24 posts
24 Jun 2018 9:26AM
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Manuel7 said..
Yes I actually straighten my front arm at first but pull on it once in the air.
On the last few sessions, I have been keeping it straight, better!

Now onto doing that and tuck my rear leg and look back sheeting in with all I got.
It's funny but from Day 1 to now I must be at 70% from waterstarting, maybe more?
With nearly 900 attempts, each attempt counted as 0.077% improvement. Ouaou :D !!!!!
Actually the first 2-3 are the most productive, then later in the day, nothing is usually done better.
What can be better is the setup (the wave, the speed) but the move is usually less and less committed with time.

Hoping to close the remaining 25-30% in the next couple of weeks.


Have your ever tried a different position for your gopro to get another view of your loop technique? for eg. mounting the camera on your head like in the video below? Also it might help if someone take a video of you from the beach.

&t=0s&index=24&list=PLX32nQ3zhExVN_Vh6d6PTp9dfSWmTNB_D

Manuel7
171 posts
26 Jun 2018 10:20AM
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The angle is a bit weird for this move, a mast mount would be a good complement. Anyway, I think I've finally got it. Basically pop with front hand up and windward of nose, bearing off with the board and leaning forward/sideways with body, both arms extended. Then, keep front arm straight sheet in and bring board under bum.

Now I need to do this with more speed or a higher ramp or both because I'm short on clearance when just powered up and cannot keep my board.

991 attempts. Maybe next session :D !? Sounds too familiar, but at least now, since I've been bearing off my crashes are loops that lack height and rotation not just random crashes. I did get a strong back slap today, I'm hoping a more sideways rotation helps since I don't go so high...

geared4knots
TAS, 2352 posts
27 Jun 2018 10:03PM
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Wow this topilc is very well covered,!!!!
Manuel you have your own forum blog as well i found.
Nice topic very well covered. But geez this has been going on a bit mate.

Hope you pull one soon, for all our sake


Manuel7
171 posts
27 Jun 2018 9:58PM
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Thanks mate, 997 attempts as of yesterday :) ! 3 more and we're good but what a quest. I guess it's been only 1 year+ and sometimes it takes more time than tries to assimilate something.
I still can't believe the difference between front loop and back loop in terms of what needs to be done. A backloop can be landed without doing anything at all while the front loop, pop tall, tuck, etc, for me, super complicated!!!!
Had a nice try yesterday throwing the move right off of the wave (and not a split second after) but still need a straighter front arm, sheet in harder, keep front arm straight, tuck under back leg, etc. It's always more and more with this move. It does feel like with each try it becomes natural but wow so much needs to be done to get it inside of us.

h20
VIC, 406 posts
29 Jun 2018 3:24PM
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If your on Facebook have a look at the 360 degree video posted by Continentseven. It's great to see forward and backward loops from all angles. I tried to post link but it won't play.

Manuel7
171 posts
6 Jul 2018 1:51AM
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How does on get to see it? I saw that it may need special VR goggles?

A few observations from this video:
- Sometimes he waits a while before pulling the trigger? (waiting to hit the right chop angle?)
- His first forwards are amazing and slowly get sloppy
- He appears a bit underpowered without going super fast
- His pop is somewhat low but the way the board comes back around seems lightening fast!



1038 attempts over here... slow slow progress. I don't have a good one off of a proper wave or with enough speed. Sometimes I can waterstart away but without the board.

Manuel7
171 posts
9 Jul 2018 2:11AM
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A little off topic... but there are some fronts in there too!

?t=262

flyingfox
WA, 28 posts
10 Jul 2018 4:19PM
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Speaking as someone who did his share of pantsing around while learning them: go faster, pop harder, sheet in harder. COMMIT LIKE A DEMON. Wear some padding if it helps..

Ye gods man, end the pain for all of us!!!

Manuel7
171 posts
13 Jul 2018 11:38AM
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Oooooh I think I got this... last thing I needed was a pop with body over the board, pressure from both legs as opposed to back foot!

Then curiously the nose of the board doesn't slow the rotation down! Got some neat attempts after I tried it, just needed a bit more wind as it was late in the session.

Will update tomorrow!!! So exciting, 1150 !!!

Guru4
6 posts
13 Jul 2018 3:42PM
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Manuel7 said..
Oooooh I think I got this... last thing I needed was a pop with body over the board, pressure from both legs as opposed to back foot!

Then curiously the nose of the board doesn't slow the rotation down! Got some neat attempts after I tried it, just needed a bit more wind as it was late in the session.

Will update tomorrow!!! So exciting, 1150 !!!


Pls post a video of the progress.

Manuel7
171 posts
18 Jul 2018 1:17AM
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I am hoping to post some photos at the very least. So far I only have landings in the straps but sail too low to catch air and get up.

When I look at my photos earlier I am now more over board, my front leg is more bent and sail more forward. On that first photo I'm sending the board too much downwind in front of me. Now the feeling is to pop and try to leap ahead of the board.

At the pop I feel like it's important to drive the mast upwind of the nose of the board, this lets us safely try even while a bit more upwind (not advised until comfortable with the pop).

In that sense it's a bit like a front flip where we jump forward (extension) but roll into it (contraction). Such an odd move for me :D !

gorgesailor
68 posts
18 Jul 2018 2:55AM
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Manuel7 said..
I am hoping to post some photos at the very least. So far I only have landings in the straps but sail too low to catch air and get up.

When I look at my photos earlier I am now more over board, my front leg is more bent and sail more forward. On that first photo I'm sending the board too much downwind in front of me. Now the feeling is to pop and try to leap ahead of the board.

At the pop I feel like it's important to drive the mast upwind of the nose of the board, this lets us safely try even while a bit more upwind (not advised until comfortable with the pop).

In that sense it's a bit like a front flip where we jump forward (extension) but roll into it (contraction). Such an odd move for me :D !


Sounds like you are getting close... only thing from what you are saying it sounds to me like thinking you should " try to leap ahead of the board" might not be right. Rather it seems like thinking that "the sail will catapult you ahead of the board" is more accurate. That way you will know that you have to extend your front arm & sheet in to get the sail to pull you around.

Manawa
12 posts
19 Jul 2018 9:42PM
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In your opinion speed loop is a dangereus moves? I tried a couple but ....never really committed.

mathew
VIC, 1629 posts
20 Jul 2018 9:55AM
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Manawa said..
In your opinion speed loop is a dangereus moves? I tried a couple but ....never really committed.


Generally speaking three types of forward-loops, a cheese-roll, a spin-loop and a killer-loop - what is a "speed loop" ?

You can rotate fast, which means you are more likely to land planing or over-rotate.
If you rotate fast enough (and are high enough), you can then do a double-loop.

Manawa
12 posts
20 Jul 2018 9:43PM
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mathew said..

Manawa said..
In your opinion speed loop is a dangereus moves? I tried a couple but ....never really committed.



Generally speaking three types of forward-loops, a cheese-roll, a spin-loop and a killer-loop - what is a "speed loop" ?

You can rotate fast, which means you are more likely to land planing or over-rotate.
If you rotate fast enough (and are high enough), you can then do a double-loop.


ok thanks I was speaking about flat water ;)

Manuel7
171 posts
22 Jul 2018 6:05AM
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To me, front or forward loop is when you go forward with your kit over a wave.

A spin loop is a more sideways forward where the rig is moved across the board.

A speed loop is a forward done over flat water, without the wave we need more speed (initial and rotational) and a more horizontal rotation (same as spin loop)...

Dangerous is relative. Main thing is to try them on a broad reach first. Never let go of the boom, or only back hand. Protect ears.

The way I approached them was dangerous for my front leg as I was leaning back at the pop. However, we can lean upwind but have to be popping the most upright possible in-between straps.

appleman
TAS, 386 posts
24 Jul 2018 10:12PM
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Manuel7
Hey mate how you going?
Are you trying to do a Foward Loop, or a flat water loop ( speed loop)?.
Flat water loop, no chop, super hard , self presevation comes to mind.
Especially being at your ripe old age of 30 years?

If you have waves ,or, 3 foot chop then get it wired , pop ,tuck, chuck.
Never let go, impact vests are great,.
Being Summer in your world we expect to hear that your loops have become second nature, and every one out of 10 are landed , at least in the water start position.
Go hard, don't think to much,
Nike, Just Do It.
Cool Brother??.

Manawa
12 posts
25 Jul 2018 3:33PM
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Hi guys thanks again much apprecitated, I am a good jumper but I don't know if try again speed loop or as soon as possible forward loop on the sea, why? because of my age 47 years old , I am able to surfing Oneye sometime I try a back loop but...... front loop is a big problem mha...

Manuel7
171 posts
27 Jul 2018 9:31AM
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I personally prefer flat water with friendly usable downwind chop than onshore mess!

Now that I understood to pop upright with rig well forward and across of the nose of the board, it's been looping central at every session no matter the conditions. Progress has been tremendous.

Beyond age, I feel like the approach is more important as some people safely get into them, others (like me) hold back with every muscle of their body. But so long as one finds a way to try them without getting hurt it's all good.

Manawa
12 posts
27 Jul 2018 10:36PM
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Manuel7 said..
I personally prefer flat water with friendly usable downwind chop than onshore mess!

Now that I understood to pop upright with rig well forward and across of the nose of the board, it's been looping central at every session no matter the conditions. Progress has been tremendous.

Beyond age, I feel like the approach is more important as some people safely get into them, others (like me) hold back with every muscle of their body. But so long as one finds a way to try them without getting hurt it's all good.


Thanks Manuel7 I total agree with you. Let us know you progress and tips



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"Speed Loop again... but this time it's for real :) !" started by Manuel7