quote:

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Originally posted by RAL INN

Ever been told by your retailer that "gee that's the only one in the world that did that."

I noticed a point about an exploding CB that was dismissed as something more sinister the other day, but I wonder was it an isolated incident.

We all know about the exploding Hells, and after witnessing a CB explode for absolutely no reason this weekend, it made me think just how often this has happened to people and is it just an across the board problem that we rarely hear about?


I personally have never had a kite damage that was un accounted for
but maybe others have.

best winds
Tony L

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G'day Tony

Whats the motive behind this post?
Yes a 9M CB exploded at Point Henry yesterday, so what? I am in Geelong at the moment, we will ensure that this Cabrinha owner is looked after even though we did not sell the kite.
No-one in Oz actually does know about exploding Hellfish, not firsthand at least, because none of the Oz ones actually did explode.
It would a be a dishonest retailer that said that about anything, as if anyone or a retailer could make a statement that they know everything about everything that happens on the entire planet in relation to any product or thing??? WTF?

Now lets get real, the CB absolutely 100% exploded for a reason, we just don't know what it is yet.

Your speculative, and intended to damage post says more about you and your motives, than it does about an isolated incident with one kite.
If there is an issue here that is warrantable then Cabrinha will take care of it, but it could just as easily have been caused by an unnoticed cut which gave way "unexpectedly".

If everyone of your kites that has had a problem did so for a logical reason, then it is also logical to presume that this is in fact the case in this isolated instance too, isn't it?

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

Well

I've had 2 out of 2 explode. My first kite was an old secondhand Wipika which I dropped in the surf at Lorne and the waves took care of that one quick smart.

So I went out and bought a new Toro 05. That lasted 5 months and shot itself while trying to relaunch, just flipping it onto its back. Still not sure what the hell happened. I know it was inflated ok, didn't explode from a drop out. NFI what happened. All I know is that it ended up with a completely shot seam and about A 2 Foot rip lengthwise.

The surface down at point Henry is sus, it would damage any kite, I was down there on Saturday, great day good kiting. I saw 2 kites explode down at St Kilda last year, one was a black SS that was stupidly left out in the sun all arvo fully pumped, and the other was from a dude using an electric pump who walked off thinking it would only go to 3 psi. I ain't sold on teh x-bow or flat kites yet, but saw one fly on Saturday and they look great in the air, the jury is still out from my point, but on gusty days i don't think many kites on the market would beat them, IMHO.

Bowski

quote:

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Originally posted by RAL INN

Well Well,

Just to settle down Kitepowers attack of the guilts.

this post was not an attack on the Crossbow but seeing it explode made me think that, was this a problem due to design, manufacture, etc.

Hence by asking the question, I was trying to find out if there was a pattern and whether these disasters are attributable to little chinese girls sick of being exploited.

However Kitepower, your attempt to bignote yourselves on this forum by rushing to the rescue like some prince charming will definately not improve anything for the owner, as I'm sure in the cabrinha hirachy SHQ are a few steps above the johnny come lately ship jumpers.

oops there I go again, tugging those guilt strings.

As for Pt henry, sure the surface is sus but there a many many kites surviving there and being treated way worse. My own 03 airblast as survived 3 yrs of it and the owner of the kite in question treats his gear with a whole lot more respect than I do. And while thinking of it I have not seen a site that could be declared unsus for potential kite damage. We need our kites to survive this.

best winds to the true at heart
Tony L

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G'day Tony
I have no idea what you are talking about with tregard to guilts.
The person who had the mishap with the CB is also a long term customer of Kitepower, he just happened to get that particular kite from SHQ.
SHQ have an excellent reputation for service, however if there is anything we can do to assist this customer we will.
Kitepower is no Jonny come whatever, we were here selling kites long before windsurfing shops knew what they were, and Cabrinha picked us, not the other way around. Regardless wew are very pleased and priveleged to represent such powerful brand as Cabrhinha, from our retail stores in NSW and Vic, and right across Australia via the internet.

We didn't jump ship mate we dumped a brand that knows nothing about keeping promises at a business level.

Once again you have shown your true motive in posting here.
The issue of the blown CB had nothing to do with you in the first place, yet you chose to make a post in a public forum to inflict damage, as you have also tried to do with your weird slant on guilt and Kitepower.

Let it go eh?

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

quote:

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Originally posted by RAL INN

Let me say this real slow.

This was not an attack on cabrinha.

Your original post below Tony, you are not fooling anyone with your bogus claim that it was not an attack on Cabrinha.

"Ever been told by your retailer that "gee that's the only one in the world that did that."

I noticed a point about an exploding CB that was dismissed as something more sinister the other day, but I wonder was it an isolated incident.

We all know about the exploding Hells, and after witnessing a CB explode for absolutely no reason this weekend, it made me think just how often this has happened to people and is it just an across the board problem that we rarely hear about?


this was a general question aimed at kites in general, ie: "across the board".

No it was not read your post again.

All other replies seemed to understand this.


Did they? Looks more like they posted stories to back up that kites did explode for very good reasons.



By the simple fact of collecting these mishaps into one thread it may hopefully highlight to the manufacturers that a bit more quality control may be in order.

I believe, Steve, that it is a wise person who makes use of some neurons to think before attacking others, jumping on unsubtantiated marketing hypes, and dismissing others claims without proof.

And I say this in the nicest possible way.

Tony L

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If that is your version of nice, well............

Apparently the damage was minor, the kite is already fixed.

Maybe you can let it go now, or are your "win" neurons firing too hard to ignore?

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

quote:

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Originally posted by RAL INN

The story so far.

we have 4 respondents to this original post.

3 out of 4 provided feedback and useful information.

Kites going bang on the beach for no particular apparent reason does happen. The most used explaination is overheating in the sun.

I would like to hear from some physics majors here as to just what are the changes in pressure due to changes in heat.

I am inclined to believe that the design of seams and materials used are more than capable of withstanding the forces involved.

I would expect that a full powered dive into the water would go way past the expected forces involved with sun shine. Remember we ususally have our kites inflated because it is windy so some air cooling is involved.

As I am an inlander, my black coloured leading edge has sat on rocks in 40+ degree cloudless days with more scratches in the dacron than a pack of fleabitten dogs.

if ever there was a candidate for heat caused explosion it is it.

The stories so far, and I hope there are others, point to a dissatisfaction, across the board, with quality control.

These so called unexplained explosions point more to flaws than design. Especially after so many years of manufacturing experience.

However, there needs to be a fair amount more of feedback in order to come to a sensible conclusion.

And that feedback should be able to be given without fear ridicule.

best winds
Tony L

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Hey Tony
4 out of 4 mate, my useful feedback and information has caused you to modify your posts and change tack to something more like what this forum should be for.

With 15 years of powerkiting experience, and having flown one of the very first wipikas that landed in Oz back in 97/98, there is no doubt in my mind that there is a reason for all kite explosions.
Usually it is a cut or nick in the LE or a strut, but we have seen plenty of explosions due to heat from the kite being put on or left on hot sand, or left in the back of a car with the struts inflated.
Increased pressure from heat or high speed impacts will cause the weakest part of the kite to come under increased load, and if the pressure is higher than the weakened area of the kite can withstand then a pop is inevitable.
They are all usually easily fixed, and are worth fixing provided the kite is not flogged out and old, like yours sounds. Do you get to use it much being from inland and all? Most Airblasts are dead now, and trying to find or buy a bladder for one would be difficult and expensive. Also some of the earlier kites had issues with bad laminated dacron, so they definately had a QC issue, although Wipika was very good with warranty on them initially.

So to conclude, in my experience there is virtually always some unnoticed damage that has weakened the structure of the LE, that causes these "sudden" "my kite popped for no reason" failures. If there is a genuine quality fault all the major brands we have dealt with have always been very good with warranty.

We see kites come into us for repairs or some sort of service that have cuts and nicks on them he owners were unnaware of. we get them on our school kites too, and they see abuse that no real kiters ever dish out to their kite!!

Kites have to be built as light as possible to perform well, get used to explosions or get a kite like Peter Lynn Venom which are much, much less likely to explode, and are easier to repair?
The quality of inflatable kites has improved a lot over the last 5 years, and particularly over the last 2 years, especially in ho they fly and stability, as well as hugely impoved safety systems, maybe its time to upgrade if the old beast keeps popping?

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

How can I say this without offending you, Steve.

Nothing you wrote altered a single thing.
my last post was an attempt to correlate those positive replys and add further to the debate.
I was also doing my best to ignore your attempts to belittle me.

To then make a neopolionic charge for the high moral ground at waterloo, by declaring it was you that caused that reply, is insulting once again.

However being the calm person that I am, unable to hold a grudge, I will simply take that post as an awkward apology. Your welcome.

By the way the grunge 03 airblast10 gives bugger all away in wind range to a CB12. Being about15kgs heavier than dean gives him a knot or 2 at the bottom. Weds we were out together 12-33kts.bear in mind that 10 is a projected area.

And if all my importers gave the same 110% service as I get from the wipika crew then we would all kite a bit easier.

best winds
Tony L

As soon as I can figure out how to get them flying well on a bar I'm sticking to foils in the surf after my Wipika exploded.

Yet to see a foil explode and it might just survive a few dumpers.

Well i think i was told by some Slingshot person i think that when my bar broke because the ends were not screwed and glued on properly that like 1 in 100 kites will have some sort of error in manufacturing.

Anyway this isn't a bitch about slingshot, Dave was in SA at the time and glady replaced my bar with a new one so no problems there.

But the interesting thing about that comment is that a small proportion of ur kites may carry defects and could cause our kites to seemingly explode for no reason, even tho there sort of is one.

G'Day,

I've read a few posts on kiteforum.com that claim the GK sonic (flat-kite) to be superior in every way to this seemingly troubled (poor stiching, inside out going, heavy-barred, explodeing overpriced...etc.) cabrina crossbow.
I've not ridden either so I have no personal knowlege, (other than user comments)has anybody had a chance to fly the GK sonic here?

I certainly will not ever trust a companieman's hype (slagger) with a retail concern to give an unbias reply, so users only please.



Thanks everybody
ottisgrey

ITS A KITE ,its not built to last. Turnover!

I had some problems with my CO2. Exploding leading edge. Turns out that the bladder came out of the elastic that holds it in the ends. It must have folded and left an open space in the leading edge, which place more stress on the bladder. I also had two tears. Both were on really low impacts. The kite was less than 6 months old and I never left the kite in the sun.

I had some problems with my CO2. Exploding leading edge. Turns out that the bladder came out of the elastic that holds it in the ends.

yeh same thing happened to me twice - aparently its an issue on the older Cabs, just check the ends every so often to make sure the elastic is holding them secure - specially after the kite gets wet.

Thankyou Anton.

I knew I should have taken more notice in Pys chem, but the fun of organic was too intoxicating ( should have kept the fume hood closed when told to).

I note your upper limit of 60C pretty close to the temp of a cars radiator at 70C. At any rate that is pretty hot ( hot enough to denature protien), and I wonder if anyone rushing to their x-ploding kite picked it up then screamed in pain as it burnt them.

Someone call the mythbusters.

I too have had the bladder pop at the ends, I attributed this to not correctly setting the bladder in place after a punture repair (dam bindyeyes). Human error I suppose. But not having to have to use this punture repairing skill since 2003, I'm not worried about that one personally.

best winds
Tony L

This topic is moving along just nicely in the direction that most see it as going.

I was avoiding using the owners name as From the times we have spoken and kited, I don't believe he would want to make a fuss.

However if his kite was repaired by Monday then The man to do it is Sparrow because that's what he does. I have no doubt that he would have seen the cause and chose to redo it himself, stronger and better than original, because that's what he does.

Why bother with a replacement kite when you can have a better one?

I also believe that if there was any sensible people at Cabrinha they would be contacting Sparrow as I'm sure he now has information that could help them improve the quality of their kite.
That should read NP themselves, not some relay of info.

As for " the nice plug for wipika, my school kite sponsor".
I may only wish. My students and customers have access to such brands as Wipika, North, Naish, slingshot, F-one, Takoon....

Any one or more of them can sponsor me at any time they choose, and when they do they will be the first.
So come on guys surely all this attention is worth some sponsorship.

So keep those stories coming, a pattern will emerge and hopefully the kite producers will get an itch.

best winds
Tony L