X-ploding kites

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MORT
MORT
WA
33 posts
WA, 33 posts
11 Oct 2005 5:49am
It's ok Tony L is bum chums with Warren Francis

SAY NO MORE
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
11 Oct 2005 8:38am
G'Day,

I've read a few posts on kiteforum.com that claim the GK sonic (flat-kite) to be superior in every way to this seemingly troubled (poor stiching, inside out going, heavy-barred, explodeing overpriced...etc.) cabrina crossbow.
I've not ridden either so I have no personal knowlege, (other than user comments)has anybody had a chance to fly the GK sonic here?

I certainly will not ever trust a companieman's hype (slagger) with a retail concern to give an unbias reply, so users only please.



Thanks everybody
ottisgrey

I distribute GK sonics in Oz and you can read my posts here and elsewhere about what we have found with GK in 3 years and the Sonic thus far.i am not going to endorse what you have posted about kiteforum.the kites are here and go out today.Check them out,decide for your self .

Thanks

Lach
Andrew
Andrew
WA
148 posts
WA, 148 posts
11 Oct 2005 8:37am
from what I hear the GK sonics will be available in the west soon... I'm lookin forward to trying one out

there were a few crossbows out at penguin island on sunday... i noticed that one of them came a drift from its owner... maybe a snapped leash?? quality problem?? but gee it was VERY gusty. I was using an old 7metre free air with great difficulty... and I did snap my leash when self landing

in the bows favour... they looked like they were having a ball in the gusty/strong conditions.... and it was no fun on the traditional LEI 4 line!
user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
11 Oct 2005 6:43pm
quote:
Originally posted by Mr float

G'Day,

I've read a few posts on kiteforum.com that claim the GK sonic (flat-kite) to be superior in every way to this seemingly troubled (poor stiching, inside out going, heavy-barred, explodeing overpriced...etc.) cabrina crossbow.
I've not ridden either so I have no personal knowlege, (other than user comments)has anybody had a chance to fly the GK sonic here?

I certainly will not ever trust a companieman's hype (slagger) with a retail concern to give an unbias reply, so users only please.



Thanks everybody
ottisgrey

I distribute GK sonics in Oz and you can read my posts here and elsewhere about what we have found with GK in 3 years and the Sonic thus far.i am not going to endorse what you have posted about kiteforum.the kites are here and go out today.Check them out,decide for your self .

Thanks

Lach



What a load of old cobblers !

Crossbows DO NOT turn inside out ! Or have poor stitching! There is ONE guy in the WHOLE World that posted photos of some stretched stitching,most probably after he had dumped the kite in the surf.
They are not "heavy barred" . If you are geting excessive bar pressure,you are sheeting in to much.Just let the kite find its own trim. Perfect !
They do not explode !Dont know where that one came from !

They are not "overpriced". In fact the list price is lower than other top brand new kites. But then you only need ONE kite,so in fact you save HEAPS !

Is ottisgrey really Lach ?? Sounds like it !

Whats a GK kite anyway ? Never heard of them !
professor
professor
QLD
277 posts
QLD, 277 posts
12 Oct 2005 10:47pm
I have to agree about the crossbow xploding
I have three of them and they are the bomb

bang hahaha
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
12 Oct 2005 10:50pm
he always makes me laugh.
dun-king
dun-king
QLD
66 posts
QLD, 66 posts
13 Oct 2005 2:30am
FISH ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ottisgrey
ottisgrey
WA
38 posts
WA, 38 posts
15 Oct 2005 11:20pm
Seems like user is a pretty afraid of something.(I bet he sells them)

Sorry mate the there are three times the number of user complaints on kiteforum today about the overpriced danger-bow,these are more serious clomplaints as well.

Don't take my word for it, just go see for yourself.

ottis
user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
16 Oct 2005 5:44am
Had a look at Kiteforum,seems to be more praise than anything.

No big deal,the Crossbow sells itself.

When you see them in action you will understand.

Or talk to a REAL user ,not someone that bags them because they cant have one.
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
16 Oct 2005 10:08am
This was meant to be a thread, for bringing to notice the fact that consumers need value for money in both performance and quality.
Not rushed in at the expense of quality.

By getting a significant representation of what goes wrong with kites, we can highlight to the companies what we are really after.

I personally have nothing against widespan kites but am also unconvinced that they offer such overwhelming benefits that would compell me to rush out and buy one.

I would rather be seeing design simplified not complicated.

Also in my own observations any devise that requires friction or interference fitting to work, is doomed to failure, and sooner rather than later.
Lines that go through pulleys will break, and without warning.

Again this is not directed straight at the crossbow, but at the need for kite producers "across the board" to think a bit harder.

It also appears to me that the compelling marketing hype is about widespan kite's ability to depower. This dramatic stated improvement is something else that I am unconvinced about, and that comes from direct comparison.

best winds
Tony L
howley
howley
WA
316 posts
WA, 316 posts
16 Oct 2005 12:31pm
quote:
What a load of old cobblers !

Crossbows DO NOT turn inside out ! Or have poor stitching! There is ONE guy in the WHOLE World that posted photos of some stretched stitching,most probably after he had dumped the kite in the surf.
They are not "heavy barred" . If you are geting excessive bar pressure,you are sheeting in to much.Just let the kite find its own trim. Perfect !


What the hell are you talking about? I have seen three of them turn inside out.
user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
16 Oct 2005 2:34pm
I have not seen any turn inside out.
Damo
Damo
WA
641 posts
WA, 641 posts
16 Oct 2005 3:12pm
User i have seen more that 1 Xbow turn inside out. IT IS A FACT XBOWS CAN AND DO TURN INSIDE OUT just like most other kites can and do.
just because you have not seen it happen why does that mean it cant happen??

it makes me so mad to see people dishonestly promoting kite gear!

on another note does anyone know how would you do a safty wrap up on a bow kite ??
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
16 Oct 2005 3:39pm
Yeah they turn inside out and do real wierd stuff from time to time.
Just gotta pump em hard, real hard.....mines only done it once when i was in a rush and didnt pump hard enough.

Love the bow...and it will love you back.
user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
16 Oct 2005 4:01pm
Yeah,and it makes me so mad to see people dishonestly bashing kitegear,just because they have some weird issue !
NSW, 4382 posts
16 Oct 2005 6:02pm
quote:
Originally posted by RAL INN

This was meant to be a thread, for bringing to notice the fact that consumers need value for money in both performance and quality.
Not rushed in at the expense of quality.

By getting a significant representation of what goes wrong with kites, we can highlight to the companies what we are really after.

I personally have nothing against widespan kites but am also unconvinced that they offer such overwhelming benefits that would compell me to rush out and buy one.

I would rather be seeing design simplified not complicated.

Also in my own observations any devise that requires friction or interference fitting to work, is doomed to failure, and sooner rather than later.
Lines that go through pulleys will break, and without warning.

Again this is not directed straight at the crossbow, but at the need for kite producers "across the board" to think a bit harder.

It also appears to me that the compelling marketing hype is about widespan kite's ability to depower. This dramatic stated improvement is something else that I am unconvinced about, and that comes from direct comparison.

best winds
Tony L




quote:
Tony's original post, just to keep things in perspective.

Ever been told by your retailer that "gee that's the only one in the world that did that."

I noticed a point about an exploding CB that was dismissed as something more sinister the other day, but I wonder was it an isolated incident.

We all know about the exploding Hells, and after witnessing a CB explode for absolutely no reason this weekend, it made me think just how often this has happened to people and is it just an across the board problem that we rarely hear about?

I personally have never had a kite damage that was un accounted for
but maybe others have.


Hey Tony
Your favourite kite came with reverse launch bridles, that had pulleys, and that had skinny little lines that broke (not nice when that happens!!).
Still got the bridles on your 10M??

If you really wanted to talk about quality and value for money, why did you start a thread bashing a brand over an isolated incident?

A guy bought a certain kite from us today 3 hrs later he is back with with ahuge split in the LE, he thinks it just happened while he was flying along, but earlier in the day he broke a front line, and came in for that to get fixed, and he was teaching his GF in onshore winds, and there is an obvious cut in the LE where the split started.

There is always 2 sides to every story, and isolated incidents should never be posted on here as you did to bash a brand and hype that there is some sort of widespread construction/quality issue.

Pulleys have been uses on kites and sails since adam and eve mate, any waterperson/sailor would know to keep an eye on them and the lines/sheets that run through them.

There are thousands of CB's in very regular use, including my own shop demos which get hammered, no sign of excessive wear or construction issues.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

Fitzy
Fitzy
QLD
617 posts
QLD, 617 posts
16 Oct 2005 8:44pm
If you had seen me kiting with a 16 Bow and a 140x39 board in 10 knts you wouldn't be so quick to damn the Bow principle.


I was happy to be out there while the rest of the crew could only sit on the beach and wait for me to get tired so they could have a go.

Have never had the bow invert on me but that is probably because I have flown a Rapture 12M since early this year. They also like to be pumped up HARD.

Fitzy Gold Coast OZ
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
16 Oct 2005 10:28pm
every kite deserves to be pumped up HARD.
IT'S YOUR DUTY AS A KITER.
some people just don't get it.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
16 Oct 2005 8:55pm
The 12m x-bow can invert when you do not pump up the LE enough or fly it fast and loop it while fully depowered in high winds.

I have even had it invert at the height of a juump, now that was freaky....kite was depowered and got gusted.

Sh..........it happens with every kite, ain't that why we do this sport? You never know what thrills nature or man has in store for you.

It is all about managing the risk and having fun.





professor
professor
QLD
277 posts
QLD, 277 posts
17 Oct 2005 11:16am
Is that pump it up hard like till if you flick it with your finger it makes
A. Makes a ping sound
B. Sounds like slapping a soggy mop on the floor
C. Or that Sound that your golf ball makes when it goes into the water trap

[:o)
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
17 Oct 2005 9:29am
D. makes.....a cracking sound as the T-bar snaps off the top of the pump shaft.
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
17 Oct 2005 1:00pm
quote:
Hey Tony
Your favourite kite came with reverse launch bridles, that had pulleys, and that had skinny little lines that broke (not nice when that happens!!).
Still got the bridles on your 10M??




My airblast10 01 model did and it was great, and the line going thru the pulley broke a number of times.
The kite was still flyable enough to safely return to shore and land.
Does anyone want to test that out on a widespan kite?

My 03 airblast10 did not come with bridle, but did come with more wind range and is still on original lines, bar, pigtails etc. and still going great.

In fact every airblast I have ever sold is still going strong.

Oh dear am I sounding like a tow the Co. line a--e licker, a thousand apologies. slap my wrist. turn away from the dark side tony, that is the path of nil cred.

careful that Co. diet is attributable to the duel aliments of "constipation of the mind" and "diarrhoea of the mouth".

best winds
Tony L
NSW, 4382 posts
17 Oct 2005 9:17pm
quote:
Originally posted by RAL INN

quote:
Hey Tony
Your favourite kite came with reverse launch bridles, that had pulleys, and that had skinny little lines that broke (not nice when that happens!!).
Still got the bridles on your 10M??




My airblast10 01 model did and it was great, and the line going thru the pulley broke a number of times.
The kite was still flyable enough to safely return to shore and land.
Does anyone want to test that out on a widespan kite?

My 03 airblast10 did not come with bridle, but did come with more wind range and is still on original lines, bar, pigtails etc. and still going great.

In fact every airblast I have ever sold is still going strong.

Oh dear am I sounding like a tow the Co. line a--e licker, a thousand apologies. slap my wrist. turn away from the dark side tony, that is the path of nil cred.

careful that Co. diet is attributable to the duel aliments of "constipation of the mind" and "diarrhoea of the mouth".

best winds
Tony L




Maybe a lot of what you have said on this thread is due to the fact that you are actually a Wipika dealer, and that brand has no answer to the introduction of the widespan kite?

You actually said this a few posts ago;
" I would rather be seeing design simplified not complicated.

Also in my own observations any devise that requires friction or interference fitting to work, is doomed to failure, and sooner rather than later.
Lines that go through pulleys will break, and without warning.

Again this is not directed straight at the crossbow, but at the need for kite producers "across the board" to think a bit harder
."

Was the introduction of thin rear line bridles on the AB's a sound well researched idea?

No, it was not. I have experienced and witnessed rear line bridle breakage on AB's and it is not a happy memory, and I simply removed mine and found the kite flew better without the risk and subsequent hazard of losing a rear line when well powered up. If you got back to shore and landed safely you have been lucky. I saw a terrible accident caused by these thin tangle prone bridles knotting at a launch attempt.

Read what you have actually posted, you are just taking every opportunity to bash Cab CB's, but your cred is sinking fast mate.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
17 Oct 2005 8:01pm
Hello Steve,

Are you saying that thin bridles are bad but thick bridles are OK ??

I think ALL bridles are a tangle waiting to happen.

Self-launching has always been sketchy but with bridled inflatos it's russian-roulette.

Flat kites are here to stay but they will eventually build them without complex bridles.

Regards
'slave
NSW, 4382 posts
17 Oct 2005 11:26pm
quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

Hello Steve,

Are you saying that thin bridles are bad but thick bridles are OK ??

I think ALL bridles are a tangle waiting to happen.

Self-launching has always been sketchy but with bridled inflatos it's russian-roulette.

Flat kites are here to stay but they will eventually build them without complex bridles.

Regards
'slave



G'day Slave

Its pretty obvious what I am saying to Tony isn't it?
Anyway I am not saying anything about thin lines and bridles, just that Tony keeps putting his foot in deeper by making weird BS statements about a style of kite he does not sell.
This whoe, thread was started by him because he does not sell widespan kites and he is trying to trash them, thats saying it simply now isn't it?.

The bridle isn't that complicated, and it is easy to replace by the user without having to buy all the bits from Cab, if some lines do wear enough to warrant replacing them.

Before all of this started there were only kites with bridles, and for many of us, there are still lots of awesome kites with bridles, and provided the flyer uses that kite properly and pre flights it, etc, we never have problems.

That said I still like the simplicity of some of the latest 4 line inflatos too, and kites like the Venoms from PL, etc.

Cya and

Goodwaves'n'wind

Steve
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
18 Oct 2005 6:58am
Steve/kitepower,

What is it with this attitude of attacking anyone who doesn't share your opinion that all kites are perfectly made and the kite you want to sell today is without fault.

And to tell others that they are doing some marketing BS and thus losing credibility has got to be the most hypocritical statement this forum has seen.

We all are witness to your hellfish crap, and resulting bale out.

reminds me of that holy grail scene with the rabbit.

And to then, in the face of written evidence on this thread, attack my cred by saying I'm only a Wipika dealer and do not sell widespans, is not only a lie but slander.

As far as that lie goes, and in rebuff, Of the six or so brands I offer to my clients there are 4 choices of widespan.

I note as well from the replys by you on this thread that you account for all kite failures as user caused. heaven help those customers of yours that try for a warranty claim.

So how about learning a little respect for thye opinions of others and shutup.

Best winds to everyone else
Tony L
NSW, 4382 posts
18 Oct 2005 8:31am
Well, Tony

Seems that you now have a few issues with me too, how unsurprising.

Perhaps you might care to disclose your status as a kite seller in future, BEFORE you start to diss other brands, with what is now well exposed on this thread, as brand bashing BS.

If you did that maybe none of this would have takne place??

As previously stated, all Hellfish were covered by a full warranty and refund - no customer of Kitepower suffered any loss. All were satisfactorily compensated.
The fact that we have chosen to not supply that brand in Australia any more is only partially due to the HF fiasco.

The kite that was presented to me on the weekend as a warranty "it just blew up in the air as I was flying it" was a scam.
I was told yeterday that the owner was seen crashing it into an armco fence and it exploded, the damage from the armco was immediately obvious to me. But what do you do when you have a guy standing there saying otherwise.

If you truly are a retailer (where is your shop), then you would know that it is imperative to listen to every customer, and do whatever is required to come to a workable and mutually satisfactory conclusion to every complaint.

The point would be to avoid complaints in the first place, hence or brand rationalisation over recent times.

As for the lame accusations of slander, check out the definition mate.

Care to have another round?

Cya and

Goodwinds even to you.

Steve McCormack
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
18 Oct 2005 8:21am
How many times did I say that this was not an attack on Cabrinha?
How many times did I express my opinion on what this thresd was about?

How many times have I declared my customers to be Scamers?
How many times Have I tried to tell the world of the huge benefits of a kite before ever flying one?

Think before you act


best winds
Tony L
NSW, 4382 posts
18 Oct 2005 2:42pm
Originally posted by RAL INN

How many times did I say that this was not an attack on Cabrinha?

But your posts contradict that quite clearly????

How many times did I express my opinion on what this thresd was about?

Once again your responses are contradictory.

How many times have I declared my customers to be Scamers?

I don't know, how many times you said that?


How many times Have I tried to tell the world of the huge benefits of a kite before ever flying one?

Probably about the same number of times you have made unfounded claims in this thread??
Like you sell 4 brands of widespan kites, when there are not 4 brands available yet?
And you make it sould like you actually have these kites in stock too?


Think before you act.

Take your own advice, please, if you want to have any cred.

I'm going to test the new Fuels, Octane, Sonic, CB all of which I do stock.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
18 Oct 2005 12:58pm
fight on.......

go on boys whos the best.......

Per'aps you could post some photos of a good fight, i'm sure Laurie would host a video or something.
Aren't you embarrassed??
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