Sandman1221 said..
Honestly, I was always worried about catching the flipped sail during a foiling gybe, like for some reason it would not come back around to me...

That's the easiest way to gybe in a strong wind. Let go of your back hand early and gybe around the sail:



You don't even need to hold onto the sail if you give it a little tug to windward before you let go:

simonp65 said.. That's the easiest way to gybe in a strong wind. Let go of your back hand early and gybe around the sail:

You don't even need to hold onto the sail if you give it a little tug to windward before you let go:

Or this one

Good advice Paducah. I think that was my problem, first time with a new sail and I wasn't sweeping it to the outside properly. Maybe because it's a RAF I wasn't reaching down the boom enough. I find it instinctive on the fin because I'm a step gyber, but it's a whole new ballgame with a foil

Sandman1221 said..
Good feedback, thanks! The key for me getting all the way around in the air was moving my front foot backwards out of the foot strap about 3/4 of a foot while back foot was on the far-side. After Andy Brandt took my kit for a spin he mentioned that he had both feet all the way back on the foiling gybe and I saw that but it did not register right away. He weighs about 5-10 kg less than me. So moving my front foot 3/4' back seems enough to balance the kit through the gybe for my weight. That was the problem I have always had with my kit (Goya Bolt 135 and AFS Wind95 foil), touching down in the middle or near the end of the gybe, that (weight too far forward) and doing the gybe on the trailing end of a gust when the wind was dropping.

Sweet! One of the big advantages of having your lift more forward relative to your feet means that as you go into a gybe and slow down the foil does not stall, because you have body weight you can shift to the tail and keep the foil up. Sliding front foot backward pre gybe would have the same effect though

aeroegnr said..

Sandman1221 said..
Good feedback, thanks! The key for me getting all the way around in the air was moving my front foot backwards out of the foot strap about 3/4 of a foot while back foot was on the far-side. After Andy Brandt took my kit for a spin he mentioned that he had both feet all the way back on the foiling gybe and I saw that but it did not register right away. He weighs about 5-10 kg less than me. So moving my front foot 3/4' back seems enough to balance the kit through the gybe for my weight. That was the problem I have always had with my kit (Goya Bolt 135 and AFS Wind95 foil), touching down in the middle or near the end of the gybe, that (weight too far forward) and doing the gybe on the trailing end of a gust when the wind was dropping.

I'm wondering then if you need more shim on the back wing so that you can stay in the front strap, or move the front strap backwards.

Also may explain the desire to move the lines forward and load up the back hand because this puts more pressure on the back foot to point upwind.

Well kit flys good the way I have it, 0.5 mm shim in front of stab., it may have to do with sail pressure reducing during the foiling gybe and so reducing foil lift, that requires moving front foot back. Now Andy was foiling on my kit with chest waders that had rubber boots so he did not get his front foot into the strap when just foiling. But again his lighter weight is an issue for balancing the kit.

And I did not desire to move lines forward, Andy told me to! But I have kept them that way because it allows me to go upwind easily using just back hand to sheet in as needed, that is helping to prevent arm soreness because I then do not have constant pressure on front arm pulling on boom going cross wind or more so upwind.

Sandman1221 said..

aeroegnr said..

Sandman1221 said..
Good feedback, thanks! The key for me getting all the way around in the air was moving my front foot backwards out of the foot strap about 3/4 of a foot while back foot was on the far-side. After Andy Brandt took my kit for a spin he mentioned that he had both feet all the way back on the foiling gybe and I saw that but it did not register right away. He weighs about 5-10 kg less than me. So moving my front foot 3/4' back seems enough to balance the kit through the gybe for my weight. That was the problem I have always had with my kit (Goya Bolt 135 and AFS Wind95 foil), touching down in the middle or near the end of the gybe, that (weight too far forward) and doing the gybe on the trailing end of a gust when the wind was dropping.

I'm wondering then if you need more shim on the back wing so that you can stay in the front strap, or move the front strap backwards.

Also may explain the desire to move the lines forward and load up the back hand because this puts more pressure on the back foot to point upwind.

Well kit flys good the way I have it, 0.5 mm shim in front of stab., it may have to do with sail pressure reducing during the foiling gybe and so reducing foil lift, that requires moving front foot back. Now Andy was foiling on my kit with chest waders that had rubber boots so he did not get his front foot into the strap when just foiling. But again his lighter weight is an issue for balancing the kit.

And I did not desire to move lines forward, Andy told me to! But I have kept them that way because it allows me to go upwind easily using just back hand to sheet in as needed, that is helping to prevent arm soreness because I then do not have constant pressure on front arm pulling on boom going cross wind or more so upwind.

Hahaha, yeah he used the same waders as that when demonstrating a regular fin jibe with my kit, not using straps, showing me how to do it.

I perpetually enter jibes too slow whether foil or fin. I've come a long way but still much to improve on myself. When I focus on forcing front arm forward and straight and sheeting in I almost make it all the way around.

After getting blasted off a board a few times and rewatching some good videos - getting backwinded, for me, is usually a symptom not sweeping the sail far enough to the outside of the turn and letting it rotate around the back hand. There still is backwind pressure on the sail but instead of it pushing on you, it just pushes the sail to rotate past you. Yesterday was a very low wind session and was going about 16 in around 8-9 kt wind speed on a 7.7 (IQFoil).

If there's less than about 12 knots of wind the gybe turns into more of a downwind tack. By sweeping the the sail to the outside you're doing a sort of helicopter tack as you pass through the apparent wind.

In light winds I give a tug with the back hand before moving the rig outside the turn to rotate. Good days I can almost do the hands free gybe, I'm sure it'll happen eventually. Currently working on ducks and 360s which are similar.
Gybe should be all front foot with the old back foot just behind the opposite strap. If you have to shuffle the front foot back there is some balance adjustment to be done, probably explains inability to use larger front wings in moderate wind and also lack of progression on gybes.

Grantmac said..
In light winds I give a tug with the back hand before moving the rig outside the turn to rotate. Good days I can almost do the hands free gybe, I'm sure it'll happen eventually. Currently working on ducks and 360s which are similar.
Gybe should be all front foot with the old back foot just behind the opposite strap. If you have to shuffle the front foot back there is some balance adjustment to be done, probably explains inability to use larger front wings in moderate wind and also lack of progression on gybes.

I only practice gybes using the AFS F1080 wing, their largest, and Aerotech FreeSpeed 5.8 sail (what Andy taught me on), think I need to move front foot back pre gybe because I am on a fin slalom board, the extra length of board (243 cm overall) effectively increases the nose weight (on top of actual extra weight of nose) and that wants to drop the board when sail pressure/foil lift is reduced during foiling gybe.

Board geometry is part of the problem but shimming can help. If you don't have the mast base fully rearward you'll want that too but realistically it won't be enough unless you get a new mast track put in.

simonp65 said..

After getting blasted off a board a few times and rewatching some good videos - getting backwinded, for me, is usually a symptom not sweeping the sail far enough to the outside of the turn and letting it rotate around the back hand. There still is backwind pressure on the sail but instead of it pushing on you, it just pushes the sail to rotate past you. Yesterday was a very low wind session and was going about 16 in around 8-9 kt wind speed on a 7.7 (IQFoil).

If there's less than about 12 knots of wind the gybe turns into more of a downwind tack. By sweeping the the sail to the outside you're doing a sort of helicopter tack as you pass through the apparent wind.

Good point. This also helps, though, for me when doing jibes while going deep in higher winds especially if I'm OP'ed. Getting the sail to the outside helps the board come around.

Grantmac said..
Gybe should be all front foot with the old back foot just behind the opposite strap. If you have to shuffle the front foot back there is some balance adjustment to be done, probably explains inability to use larger front wings in moderate wind and also lack of progression on gybes.

I'd be tempted to move the front straps back a hole, myself. Gwen said it a long time ago and I've tended to agree that the board should be set up so it flies level in that position of front foot in strap and back foot just in front of the strap (no weight on the harness). Makes jibes super easy. I can't see banging into a well powered jibe and moving the front foot back from the strap at the same time. Sounds like a recipe for disaster in windy or very light conditions. If it works for someone - that's great but I'd see it as something to be unlearned later. If you look at the pics simonp65 and ayzmuth posted, one can see how easily the riders are foiling in that position mid jibe.

aeroegnr said..
I've come a long way but still much to improve on myself. When I focus on forcing front arm forward and straight and sheeting in I almost make it all the way around.

If you aren't already doing this, make sure you are exiting off the wind and staying off the wind until powered up; and not trying to carve back up to a reach. Start your jibe at 4 o'clock and exit at 7:30. Exiting downwind helps you maintain the glide and flip the sail earlier. The Clearwater guys really keep a straight front arm and bent knees. Inspiring to watch them go around. Also, try to jibe in the gusts when possible (and the gusts aren't insane). Don't worry about the power as it shuts off as soon as you begin the carve.

My foot stays in the strap until I'm powered up on the new tack. I haven't see a single competent foiler pull a foot out before initiating the gybe.
Having both feet out puts you even further from the mast base, which is already too far ahead on that board. Makes it far harder to get the rig balanced so it rotates easily.

Sandman, it is true that you will finally catch up to the flipped sail as you continue to turn but successful gybing takes a bit more input from the rider. If your board is balanced as you say, you are probably dropping close to the water at the end as you have lost too much speed. Speed during a gybe is your friend, your foil is much more stable at speed. That's why most people advise to gybe on a gust. When you go into the turn oversheet and lay down the sail a bit (not full on like a pro) this will help keep some speed up and turn a bit tighter in the first part of the gybe. The aim should be to keep power in the sail as long as possible and to get power on as soon as you can. It's a very fine line to know when to flip though.
Going into a gybe from a downwind run can be very different from going up wind into a gybe though.


The gybes above were mostly from off the wind. Going a fair bit faster than the windspeed it is so easy to get backwinded. In this situation I only oversheet momentarily as I enter the gybe before the flip. You may need to help the sail around the first part of the flip with the backhand. Then just try and keep everything as smooth as possible until you can catch the sail. Because I am still going faster than the windspeed at this point there is very little power in the sail. I try to fly out of these quite high so I can drop down on the foil to create a bit of acceleration. Once you have a bit of power back in the sail head back to a reach or up wind.

A lot of these gybes are up wind to up wind which I find a lot less technical. Because going up wind I am only going a similar speed to the wind the chance of being backwinded is far less. I can stay oversheeted a bit longer and carve a bit harder and when I flip, the sail comes round much quicker. Also because I am probably going slower than the wind speed the sail is powered up as soon as I catch it.
The only way to learn is go out and do it again and again and again. Forget long runs of foiling bliss for a while and just gybe. You will be surprised how quickly you get it. I wish I had done it 12 months before I did. The drifting round waiting for things to come to you like many of us have done will get you so far but you have to make it happen.
Can you spot my crash on the tracks?

Swindy said..
Sandman, it is true that you will finally catch up to the flipped sail as you continue to turn but successful gybing takes a bit more input from the rider. If your board is balanced as you say, you are probably dropping close to the water at the end as you have lost too much speed. Speed during a gybe is your friend, your foil is much more stable at speed. That's why most people advise to gybe on a gust. When you go into the turn oversheet and lay down the sail a bit (not full on like a pro) this will help keep some speed up and turn a bit tighter in the first part of the gybe. The aim should be to keep power in the sail as long as possible and to get power on as soon as you can. It's a very fine line to know when to flip though.
Going into a gybe from a downwind run can be very different from going up wind into a gybe though.


The gybes above were mostly from off the wind. Going a fair bit faster than the windspeed it is so easy to get backwinded. In this situation I only oversheet momentarily as I enter the gybe before the flip. You may need to help the sail around the first part of the flip with the backhand. Then just try and keep everything as smooth as possible until you can catch the sail. Because I am still going faster than the windspeed at this point there is very little power in the sail. I try to fly out of these quite high so I can drop down on the foil to create a bit of acceleration. Once you have a bit of power back in the sail head back to a reach or up wind.

A lot of these gybes are up wind to up wind which I find a lot less technical. Because going up wind I am only going a similar speed to the wind the chance of being backwinded is far less. I can stay oversheeted a bit longer and carve a bit harder and when I flip, the sail comes round much quicker. Also because I am probably going slower than the wind speed the sail is powered up as soon as I catch it.
The only way to learn is go out and do it again and again and again. Forget long runs of foiling bliss for a while and just gybe. You will be surprised how quickly you get it. I wish I had done it 12 months before I did. The drifting round waiting for things to come to you like many of us have done will get you so far but you have to make it happen.
Can you spot my crash on the tracks?

Thanks Swindy, I have been working up to it carefully to avoid getting hurt or damaging equipment, but now I can handle too little wind by going to a planing gybe, and know how to bail if I lose my balance during a powered foiling gybe. I practice in one location where the water is fairly flat, but getting ready to practice in another location that has more waves. Yeah, hard to give up the long runs but starting to do it.

Grantmac said..
My foot stays in the strap until I'm powered up on the new tack. I haven't see a single competent foiler pull a foot out before initiating the gybe.
Having both feet out puts you even further from the mast base, which is already too far ahead on that board. Makes it far harder to get the rig balanced so it rotates easily.

Assume you are referring to me Grantmac. What Andy Brandt told me to do was to stay balanced over the foil during the foiling gybe. Not sure why you are hung up on mast base, but for my kit I need my front foot back to stay balanced over the foil, and of course so did Andy. Have to assume you are not a teaching professional who travels all over the country teaching people on their equipment, based on your lack of understanding about how a particular kit (in this case a fin slalom board) influences foot position during a foiling gybe.