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General Sail making Construction Blokarts Events & Competition

landyacht

5921 posts

landyacht

WA, 5921 posts

1 Apr 2009 9:47pm

dont worry about the silly ski thing , go have a go with the rollerblade wheels! I want to know how that front end goes

lachlan3556

VIC

1066 posts

lachlan3556

VIC, 1066 posts

2 Apr 2009 3:09pm

Anything stopping the use of our standard wheel barrow wheels (and/or BMX wheel up front) and iand's ski design? Even if they were at a fixed angle, a pilot would only have to be carefull not to enter water at too high an angle

Also, the ski can be mounted so a larger portion of it is behind the wheel and therefore increase the angle of attack (as in the 4X4 lingo sense), shouldn't matter tooooo much the point of lateral resistance moving back 100-200mm (for short times

).

And, have a ski design that didn't produce an excessive amount of drag but still provide enough flotation (forget the technical term, 'hydrodynamic lift'?).

I didn't think this idea had anything to it to begin with but as the cogs are turning Im liking it more and more. Definately an A+ project

iand

QLD

243 posts

iand

QLD, 243 posts

2 Apr 2009 3:21pm

landyacht said...

dont worry about the silly ski thing , go have a go with the rollerblade wheels! I want to know how that front end goes

Take note people Landyacht is getting worried and is trying to side track me.
If I did would it get me my diploma Paul-so I can start construction on my new lefroy mini FUBAR (I decided to call #1 SNAFU and #2 KISS) or maybe a class5.
Lachlan the reason I suggested rollblade wheels in this manor was to minimize the amount of wheel creating drag
Ian

landyacht

5921 posts

landyacht

WA, 5921 posts

2 Apr 2009 8:29pm

When can I expect you to submit the rollerblade yacht for marking

iand

QLD

243 posts

iand

QLD, 243 posts

3 Apr 2009 12:43am

My apologies to Cameron after rereading your post I realized you were talking about using the skis on sand not water.
Ian

lachlan3556

VIC

1066 posts

lachlan3556

VIC, 1066 posts

3 Apr 2009 11:02am

Ah, yes. Drifted a little from the topic it seems, although this ski on water idea is not without merit. The idea is definately not short of some potential inovation.

Looking at some of the stunts the Blokart pilots attempt I think 'puddle jumping' would only add to the entertainment. Its almost hilarious seeing a motobike hydroplane on water (ie: in the Crusty Demons DVD's), always waiting for the chance of a dunking

Coremeister

QLD

22 posts

Coremeister

QLD, 22 posts

14 Apr 2009 9:06am

If you were keen to try soom balloon tyres on your landyacht you could have a go at these, they are mouunted on alloy rims and are very solid, we use them to move our boats around on the beach, I have just replaced my prevoius plastic wheels with these ones, much easier to move the boat about on soft sand but are a little bouncy when rigging the boat, just back back from State Tiltes at Hervey Bay (why didn't you bring your boat up Ian ? we had the biggest fleet of all the classes with 16 boats, including the National Champs from the past 3 years as well as state champs from the last 4 years there, very close racing in every heat with the first 6 or 8 boats finishing with 15 seconds of each other, any way back to the topic) Don't know how these wheels would go at speed but I assume you may not be moving that fast on softer sands. After the racing on Sunday I had considered maybe using the Cathauler as the rear axle of a simple landyacht (the wheels are already mounted on the axle and it would be wide enough, just have to be careful not to fly a wheel and dig the leeward craddle in) but then sanity set in and I went back to de-rigging before the presentation dinner.

landyacht

5921 posts

landyacht

WA, 5921 posts

14 Apr 2009 8:39pm

OK !!!!!! we need to know what the diameter of that center shaft is , also where ja get it???????

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

15 Apr 2009 12:38am

It's a fair bet the hole through the rim is 2" but like you said "wearjagetum"??

Coremeister

QLD

22 posts

Coremeister

QLD, 22 posts

15 Apr 2009 9:55pm

The alum shaft is indeed 2" or 50mm but the wheels run on a very simple needle roller setup made from 9mm diam nylon rods around the axle shaft and inside the hub of the wheel, there is still a little clerance once all the rods ( 11 of them from memory) so they turn freely with a little bit of play, if you wanted a better bearing setup on a smaller diam axle you could simply machine a spacer or adaptor. These came from Brisbane Catmaran Centre at Richlands in Brisbane, Roscoe the owner is overseas for another week or so, if you wanted any info about them you could give him a call on 07 3375 4911, alternativley some discussion on the Catsailor forum has recommended these links.

~~http://www.wheeleez.com/beachwheelsPU.php#49cm~~
these don't look as good as the ones I am using

www.intocom.com.au/
don't actually know anyone using these with the plastic hubs but they look ok.

www.nacra.com.au/accessories/cat-haulers
Brisbane Cat Cntrs site, also has every thing Nacra.

If I get some time soon I will have a go at using them for the rear axle on a modified mini, if I don't survive I won't post the pics.

Corey

hills

1622 posts

hills

SA, 1622 posts

15 Apr 2009 9:59pm

mmmmm... love those Nacras!!

Cameronc

NSW

78 posts

Cameronc

NSW, 78 posts

21 Apr 2009 1:02pm

Ohk guys sorry for the late reply as i just got back from holidays.
Just a kinda urgent thing i need some recommended dimensions for the kart as in length , height ( not including sail) width etc and the size of the sail as i need to submit a prototype to scale in a week so this is kinda a must have thankyou
,Cameron

hills

1622 posts

hills

SA, 1622 posts

21 Apr 2009 2:35pm

Just use the specs in Landyacht's Lefroy mini build.

landyacht

5921 posts

landyacht

WA, 5921 posts

21 Apr 2009 8:36pm

what he says!

The lefroy mini is agood starter size for a begginner or somebody trying to get a challenge from a landyacht!

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

22 Apr 2009 3:11am

If we keep saying it these LLF Minis might catch on.

For anybody reading who hasn't heard it before:- The Lake Lefroy Mini Explorer is a hot machine. They are easy to build and sail, suitable for women and children and can go like a rocket.

The plans for them can be downloaded from this web site for FREE. If you want to build one the best advice is STICK TO THE PLAN.

Using new material the cost of building the trike is $400. A new aluminium mast and boom will cost about $250. A new sail will cost around $650 and sheet ropes and blocks will cost $100. All up cost is $1400.

As an ongoing project it is not necessary to outlay this money all at once and if recycled windsurfer masts and sails are used the cost can be considerably reduced.

You now have enough information to make a DECISION.

Have fun. Cheers Cisco

Cameronc

NSW

78 posts

Cameronc

NSW, 78 posts

22 Apr 2009 2:35pm

i coudlnt see where it said the dimensions? i just need to know wide the is the axel for the two back wheeles and how long it the main bar that connects the back wheeles to the front wheeles? and how tall is the sail?

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

22 Apr 2009 10:00pm

Seek and Ye shall find. Have a look at the plans.

Also click this link www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39791

There are three things that will hold you back from success.

They are FEAR, CYNICISM and LAZINESS. Overcome those and SUCCESS is in your hands.

landyacht

5921 posts

landyacht

WA, 5921 posts

22 Apr 2009 9:17pm

Posted 26/07/2008, 5:38 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ive dug up this original post to help newcomers get an idea of why the Lake Lefroy Mini was built in the first place.
We designed and built these yachts to give those club members who were not financial enough to buy a BLOKART an opportunity to have a similar yacht.
Simplicity of design and construction were important as was the re-use of materials,such as windsurfer sails and masts. In order to retain the equality of racing with the blokarts we have retained the overall measurements. the length is based on wheel centres to allow for a variety of wheel diameters and the width based on overall width to stop yachts from using FAT tyres to gain more width
no sail restictions were applied to allow the use of bigger sails on poorer quality surfaces,eg grass fields.
It is hoped that the loose rules will encourage people to try out thier own ideas and experiment with new materials . We decided that freedom of design should be encouraged by setting only wheelbase dimensions,and minimal safety requirements.
RULE 1a. MAXIMUM LENGTH (WHEEL CENTRES) 1640mm
RULE 1b. MAXIMUM WIDTH(OVERALL) 1510mm
RULE 2. Yacht must have an effective seat belt which must be worn correctly when sailing.
THe following are recommendations only.
yacht should have a brake.
Designs should take into account the Australian class 6 rules if the yacht is intended to be raced in that class

The 2 designs in the following posts are 2 designs we built to give an indication of what is possible. the perfomance achieved is equivalent of a basic entry level BLOKART. and requires only simple tools and skills to accomplish

Thank you cisco, that is the long lost post which is supposed to be the first post in the lefroy mini building thread. Every time Laurie tried to pu it front of the build a landyacht thread, it wouldnt work

Kody

QLD

190 posts

Kody

QLD, 190 posts

22 Apr 2009 11:28pm

cisco said...

There are three things that will hold you back from success.

They are FEAR, CYNICISM and LAZINESS. Overcome those and SUCCESS is in your hands.

There were two men examining a part to make. One said "That cant be made", the other said, "I can make that". - They were both right.

Kody

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

23 Apr 2009 12:37am

landyacht said...

RULE 1a. MAXIMUM LENGTH (WHEEL CENTRES) 1640mm
RULE 1b. MAXIMUM WIDTH(OVERALL) 1510mm
RULE 2. Yacht must have an effective seat belt which must be worn correctly when sailing.
THe following are recommendations only.
yacht should have a brake.
Designs should take into account the Australian class 6 rules if the yacht is intended to be raced in that class

Thank you cisco, that is the long lost post which is supposed to be the first post in the lefroy mini building thread. Every time Laurie tried to pu it front of the build a landyacht thread, it wouldnt work

You are welcome. I knew it was buried in the forum somewhere because I think I asked for the definitive LLF Mini specs way back then.

Re the mechanics of the forum. You have to be a little forgiving. Not many things work as perfectly as an LLF Mini.

Cameronc

NSW

78 posts

Cameronc

NSW, 78 posts

23 Apr 2009 10:36am

oh thankyou so much now i can make my model just 1 more thing wat height is the mast? and wat length is the boom?

cisco

QLD

12365 posts

cisco

QLD, 12365 posts

23 Apr 2009 12:33pm

4.8m and 1.6m should do.

Cameronc

NSW

78 posts

Cameronc

NSW, 78 posts

23 Apr 2009 12:45pm

thankyou so much everyone im sorry if i get annoying but 1 more thing how far up from the end of the main bar that connects the back axel to the front wheel should the mast go i drew a diagram just incase its hard to follow what i mean

(edit) 4.8m!!!!! for my scale im using 1:5 so 150 cm long = 30cm scaled
480cm = 96 cm long? is that right?
because isnt "1640mm" the maximum length if 1.64m is the max length how can the boom be 1.6m? wouldnt that boom be almost the length of the yacht? kind of confused from because im new to the whole land yachting

Another thing steering .... i get that a twisting motion of the steering rod that is connected to the wheel steers the wheel but how does pushing on 2 plates with your feet product a twisting effect on the steering rod?

sn

2775 posts

WA, 2775 posts

23 Apr 2009 7:12pm

the steering works because you are not pushing the same way with both feet, just pretend its a steering wheel that you are moving with your feet instead of your hands.

To turn left = left foot down & right foot up.

To turn right = right foot down & left foot up.

The boom is long enough so that it hangs out the back of the yacht, a pair of pulleys near the end of the boom are connected to a pulley on the end of the strut that supports the back of the seat.

your rope is fixed to the end of the strut- runs up to the first pulley on the end of the boom- back to the pulley on the seat strut (near where the rope started from)-back up to the boom's second pulley- then along to another pulley underneath the front of the boom- then down to a pulley mounted about 1/2 way down the mast support tube- then the rope runs back to the pilot who either loosens or tightens the rope to adjust the sail tension.

Cameronc

NSW

78 posts

Cameronc

NSW, 78 posts

24 Apr 2009 10:10am

ohhh i get the whole steering and rope thing now thanks , now just how far from the end of the front of the kart does the boom go?

kiwi307

488 posts

kiwi307

488 posts

24 Apr 2009 9:07am

Big wheels, come on guys, re-inventing wheels!
Aircraft tyres were the go in the early 80's, and smaller tyres like a soft sidewall wheelbarrow tyre went past every time. They haven't been seen since (to my knowledge). The meerest drop of a puddle will show why. The wide tyre stops really quickly!.
Guru says "light is right", I say tyres are the answer to landyacht performance!

kiwi307

488 posts

kiwi307

488 posts

24 Apr 2009 9:11am

Cameronc said...

ohhh i get the whole steering and rope thing now thanks , now just how far from the end of the front of the kart does the boom go?

Hi Cameron, you are approaching this from the wrong end of the paradigm. The mast should be worked out from the BACK axle. If you do some searching on this forum there is a lot of tech stuff. Try looking for phrases like CofG (centre of gravity) and centre of effort. Record this, your teacher should acknowledge your study efforts if you record what you discover.
Working from the back axle will give a safe and well steering yacht, from the front may not.

Cameronc

NSW

78 posts

Cameronc

NSW, 78 posts

24 Apr 2009 12:13pm

ohk thankyou i also need to do some market research so i wrote up a quick questionair for who ever wants to answer it could you please post it on this thread or email to to me at [email protected]

Market Research

Hello my name is Cameron and I am currently in year 12 doing Design and Technology. My aim is to create a cheap alternative to the “Blo Kart' it is a land yacht/wind buggy that travels on land using only wind as its power source.
The commercial product the “Blo Kart” is very good at what it does but is heavily overpriced.
I am going to try and innovate the land yacht and put some sort of skis attached so it can go on soft sand and hydroplane on shallow water.

1.What do you think of my design which involves steering with your feet , very comfortable seat and skis to hydroplane and go on un-even sand?

2.How do home made land yachts compare to the commercial Blo Kart?

3.How popular / well known are land yachts? Do you think many people know about them?

4.Would you like to see a surge of home made land yachts that perform as well as Blo Karts but are a fraction of the price?

5. If someone produced a cheaper land yacht that performed well would you consider purchasing one?

hills

1622 posts

hills

SA, 1622 posts

24 Apr 2009 5:46pm

Ok I'll answer, see comments in Italics

Market Research

Hello my name is Cameron and I am currently in year 12 doing Design and Technology. My aim is to create a cheap alternative to the “Blo Kart' it is a land yacht/wind buggy that travels on land using only wind as its power source.
The commercial product the “Blo Kart” is very good at what it does but is heavily overpriced.

Heavily overpriced is not a fair comment. They are well priced for what you get

I am going to try and innovate the land yacht and put some sort of skis attached so it can go on soft sand and hydroplane on shallow water.

1.What do you think of my design which involves steering with your feet , very comfortable seat and skis to hydroplane and go on un-even sand?

I would like to see a working prototype before deciding on the skis. I like the rest though

2.How do home made land yachts compare to the commercial Blo Kart?

This depends on how well built the home made yacht is. Well made ones are just as good if not better, poorly built ones are much worse. One advantage of a blokart is you will always get a consistantly good quality product

3.How popular / well known are land yachts? Do you think many people know about them?

No I don't think they are well known. Blokarts and this forum are going a way to resolve this, but there is a long way to go.

4.Would you like to see a surge of home made land yachts that perform as well as Blo Karts but are a fraction of the price?

I'd like to see a surge of all types of landyachts

5. If someone produced a cheaper land yacht that performed well would you consider purchasing one?

No but I'd consider building one

sn

2775 posts

WA, 2775 posts

24 Apr 2009 8:16pm

Cameronc said...

ohk thankyou i also need to do some market research so i wrote up a quick questionair for who ever wants to answer it could you please post it on this thread or email to to me at [email protected]

Market Research

Hello my name is Cameron and I am currently in year 12 doing Design and Technology. My aim is to create a cheap alternative to the “Blo Kart' it is a land yacht/wind buggy that travels on land using only wind as its power source.
The commercial product the “Blo Kart” is very good at what it does but is heavily overpriced.
I am going to try and innovate the land yacht and put some sort of skis attached so it can go on soft sand and hydroplane on shallow water.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.What do you think of my design which involves steering with your feet , very comfortable seat and skis to hydroplane and go on un-even sand?

Interesting, the skis are a novel idea, and if successful will be ideal for beach use near the waterline.

2.How do home made land yachts compare to the commercial Blo Kart?

Not having tried a blokart all I can say is the price of a home-built yacht is much more wallet friendly!

3.How popular / well known are land yachts? Do you think many people know about them?

Landyachts are practically unknown to the general public, and most people only see them as a curiousity- we are doing our best to remedy this!

4.Would you like to see a surge of home made land yachts that perform as well as Blo Karts but are a fraction of the price?

I would like to see more landyachts of any type! (and more venues where they can be used)
There are many people who would like to own landyachts, but cannot justify spending several thousand dollars for a commercially built model, and do not have the skill or facilities to build one themselves, or the time to chase-up all the bits and pieces to make one.
I think there is possibly room in the market for a kit-form of landyacht which can be supplied with all the welding done, and the critical bits ready to fit by the purchaser with minimum skills.

5. If someone produced a cheaper land yacht that performed well would you consider purchasing one?

Possibly- but I would prefer to build it myself.

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