Building a Landyacht for DesignandTech Major Work

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kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
7 May 2009 3:55am
hills said...

Haha!! I'm only giving him Gizmo's formula, he still has to do the calculations!


That's true, however as you probably remember, if you go to a teacher with "real questions" you get a hell of a lot of cred with the teacher. Now we have taken this chance away!
Cameronc
Cameronc
NSW
78 posts
NSW, 78 posts
8 May 2009 10:24am
im staring doing detailed drawing now i just need a few dimensions so i can do this. thankyou

kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
8 May 2009 9:03am
Cameron, I am sorry if this is sounding like a broken record but....
All this stuff is available on this site. Do some searching.
None of us need the marks for our projects, you do, so DO THE WORK YOURSELF, many of us could design this for you, I won't because I hope you can take this opportunity and learn for yourself. Even if you make terrible mistakes you will have learned something which is valuable for your life. Just doing what anyone else tells you on a tech project (at least here in NZ) would give you a zero mark!
Please take this chance and run with it.
NickSh
NickSh
WA
39 posts
WA, 39 posts
8 May 2009 11:20am
Hi Cameron, What Kiwi says is very pertinent. However, to answer your question you will need to make some very serious decisions. These decisions and the answers that you come up with will need to be included in your design brief. These are:
1 How much room do you have to store the land yacht that you make?
2 What sort of budget do you have?...even a home built land yacht is not cheap.
3 What do you intend to do with it after you have made it?...other than the obvious.

Will you want to sail with other land yachts in races etc?. If this is a possibility, then you will need to decide which class (class 5 or 6 most likely). Back to question 1. Class 5 yachts are quite large to store and Q2 are proportionally more expensive to build... cost of materials.

The last few posts in the general section of Class 6 rules will answer your questions on class 6 measurements or search Lake Lefroy Mini for the plans to that one OR open the Landyacht forum topic page and look at the right of the screen to Land Sailing Articles which has a topic on Land Sailing Class 5 specs or Pacific Magic Plans.
The other option isn't one I'd recommend as all of the hard work has already been done over a significant number of years by other people with much more accumulated experience and deeper pockets.This option is- Make up the measurements to; whatever you want to make them and then do the Mathematics to come up with the missing angles and lengths. (see your teacher if this is too difficult).

Personally I don't think this is the option for you for two reasons. The first is the time it will take and obvious lack of experience in making these calculations and making a landyacht. The second is that a recognised class of yacht will recoup more of your hard earned money(or your parents), if you elect to sell after the novelty wears off. Not to mention that less material will be wasted in making things that just don't work out...which means $$$$

Make a landyacht from the plans available and spend the extra time and significantly less money devising your skis for shallow water and soft sand. Even look at some kind of float with hydrofoils similar to the Hobie tri foiler which you could interchange with the wheels for use in the water. Have a look on youtube. Nick
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
8 May 2009 7:06pm
Nick, can you look back at all the posts on this please? Cameron is doing a design and tech project. Now I assume that means he needs to design. Making whatever anyone else designs hardly fits that criteria.
Cameron, I am not going to respond any more, you are probably sick of hearing the same thing over and over.
As a suggestion from a teacher of tech here in NZ, how about you come up with your proposal and invite comment, or even 2 or 3 concepts?
If you go back to your drawings above, you have drawn 2 sides of a right triangle, and asked us to tell you the hypotenuse, please, this is year 4 maths in NZ!
In another you have drawn a seat and aked for dimensions. For %^&'s sake, take out a tape measure and measure any old chair! For what it's worth, most of us started with plastic school chairs.
That's my last comment.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
8 May 2009 8:08pm
have to agree with alot of what 307 has written.
When trying to work out a measurement on something this small, you can even try drawing it full size on the ground. I do it all the time, but hes right, the maths your asking is pretty basic, talk to your teacher
NickSh
NickSh
WA
39 posts
WA, 39 posts
8 May 2009 9:09pm
Missed your point Kiwi307 or more precisely...you missed mine. I can also can claim that I have been an Industrial arts teacher (in Australia) and I am very aware that Cameron is doing a design and technology project. I am certain that Camerons brief doesn't stipulate he has to design the whole thing from scratch. As a design and tech student in year 12 he would get as much value and experience just making the changes he expressed in his first post and that is to design the skis for the shallow water and soft sand. This is a much more manageable task given his obvious inexperience in design and landsailing.

I can only suggest you reread my post and you might see my focus was more on him making some valid decisions regarding the size of the land yacht, which is why I mentioned where to find the measurements he requires. I did suggest that he look at the LLM and Pacific Magic but more as an after thought and also so that he could see the sort of detail he will require in his drawings etc.

I also don't see any value in sarcastic and belittling comments which is where your posts are and have been heading.
Regards Nick
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
9 May 2009 9:50am
Yep, lets not lose focus that this forum is to promote the sport and encourage people to get into it!
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
9 May 2009 9:05pm
NickSh said...

Missed your point Kiwi307 or more precisely...you missed mine. I can also can claim that I have been an Industrial arts teacher (in Australia) and I am very aware that Cameron is doing a design and technology project. I am certain that Camerons brief doesn't stipulate he has to design the whole thing from scratch. As a design and tech student in year 12 he would get as much value and experience just making the changes he expressed in his first post and that is to design the skis for the shallow water and soft sand. This is a much more manageable task given his obvious inexperience in design and landsailing.

I can only suggest you reread my post and you might see my focus was more on him making some valid decisions regarding the size of the land yacht, which is why I mentioned where to find the measurements he requires. I did suggest that he look at the LLM and Pacific Magic but more as an after thought and also so that he could see the sort of detail he will require in his drawings etc.

I also don't see any value in sarcastic and belittling comments which is where your posts are and have been heading.
Regards Nick


Nick, if you have read these as sarcastic and belittling I apologise, as this was certainly not what was meant. My aim was to encourage Cameron to make best use of the expertise he has close at hand, ie his teachers.
Yes the forum is intended to encourage people into the sport, however as I read Camerons request, it was for help in his project. Many offered this help, some to say, in effect "copy the designs on here". I am surprised if this meets the parameters of "Major design and construction", however if it does meet these so be it.
In one post he asks what a length of the hypotenuse of a right triangle is, when he has drawn the two other sides, I guess that my repsonse to this could be considered belittling, certainly not what was actually said, ie ask your teacher to help.
I totally agree that trying the skis etc is more manageable, however I also know that a fair number of yachts were designed and built from scratch within a year here. Perhaps we can "agree to disagree" on the magnitude of differences in the scope of the project?
I thought I had encouraged Cameron to explore new ideas, on a number of occasions? Yes, the size of yacht in almost everyones suggestions, and in Camerons' concept sketches is mini size, this is commendable.

hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
9 May 2009 11:40pm
Cameron's picture only has the length of one of the right angles and there's no indication that they are of equal length so unfortunately even Pythagorus won't be able to help him with that one, hence it is a valid question! That said I do appreciate your intentions 307.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
10 May 2009 7:02pm
Einstein said that his education started after he left school,

and that imagination is more important than knowlege.

Imagination is the video in the mind of life's coming attractions.

A teacher's primary function is to encourage the pupil to think and learn how to discover facts rather than give the pupil facts.

All great discoveries and achievements of human kind started with a dream.

All great discoveries and achievements of human kind are driven by a sense of rebellion against the normal, convention and authority.

Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it CAN achieve.

No one ever WINS an arguement.

I've got hundreds of them, but that is all you are getting today.

Cheers Cisco
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
10 May 2009 8:45pm
Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life... Either way you have to tell him fish exist!!
iand
iand
QLD
243 posts
QLD, 243 posts
10 May 2009 9:26pm
hills said...

Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life... Either way you have to tell him fish exist!!


dont you mean "give a man a fish and he will feast for a day, teach a man to fish and he will sit in a little boat drinking beer all day."
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
10 May 2009 9:35pm
A bad days fishing is always better than a good day at work!!!
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
10 May 2009 9:47pm
Gizmo said...

A bad days fishing is always better than a good day at work!!!


You speak it the way it is Giz!!
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
10 May 2009 8:21pm
and yet i live 400kmfrom the beach and probably go fishing more often
Cameronc
Cameronc
NSW
78 posts
NSW, 78 posts
11 May 2009 3:35pm
Um...... dnt doesnt always mean designing something its an innovation so i can do the lefroy mini and still get good marks.
I do not want to race so it does not have to be to any standards
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
11 May 2009 7:32pm
sounds like a good idea. reading , understanding, and following plans and instructions, and creating a piece of work to a good standard is surely the place every young designer should start. From that they learn the process of creating something themselves from scratch.
I know that from comparing notes with other builders on this site ive learnt better, more accurate, and simpler ways of doing many things
Cameronc
Cameronc
NSW
78 posts
NSW, 78 posts
12 May 2009 2:09pm
and another few things what materials do you use ? tube mild steel , angle mild steel? and where do i buy mast and boom from?
Cameronc
Cameronc
NSW
78 posts
Clemco
Clemco
430 posts
430 posts
12 May 2009 4:26pm
Cameron: Yeah that one looks great ,if you can afford that price. I built my first homebuilt using a 5m wind surfing speed sail. I still use that sail now and then.
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
12 May 2009 6:19pm
Cameronc said...

and another few things what materials do you use ? tube mild steel , angle mild steel? and where do i buy mast and boom from?

Cameron, this is all starting to go around in circles....
Please read again the construction of the Lake Lefroy Mini
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33825
All or most of the questions you are asking are answered in that thread on the forum, as you are are in year 12 and will be next year in the workforce or in tertiary studies a lot of things in life you need to find for yourself.
Cameron as this is your assignment and a major piece of school work in year 12 you need to do the work.
splitpin
splitpin
104 posts
104 posts
12 May 2009 7:33pm
Gizmo said...

Cameronc said...

and another few things what materials do you use ? tube mild steel , angle mild steel? and where do i buy mast and boom from?

Cameron, this is all starting to go around in circles....
Please read again the construction of the Lake Lefroy Mini
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33825
All or most of the questions you are asking are answered in that thread on the forum, as you are are in year 12 and will be next year in the workforce or in tertiary studies a lot of things in life you need to find for yourself.
Cameron as this is your assignment and a major piece of school work in year 12 you need to do the work.


answer the question where does he get the mast and boom from ,you seem to be an aurthority on the subject give hime a break ,we are not all as smart as you
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
12 May 2009 9:55pm
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50609
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37622
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37931
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38147

Try the search ....it works well


Splitpin.... as a parent of 3 past Yr 12 students, their respective Schools expected the students to do their own homework/research as it is an important learning tool for the future.

Not being harsh just realistic!
splitpin
splitpin
104 posts
104 posts
12 May 2009 8:39pm
[]apart from windsurfer masts i would not know where to source one,so let us all know where they come from,and i am not a student
[




Try the search ....it works well


Splitpin.... as a parent of 3 past Yr 12 students, their respective Schools expected the students to do their own homework/research as it is an important learning tool for the future.

Not being harsh just realistic!



landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
12 May 2009 8:49pm
splitpin said...

[]apart from windsurfer masts i would not know where to source one,so let us all know where they come from,and i am not a student
[









recycling centres, road side rubbish days, scrap yards, windsurfing and sailng shops,aluminium shops, sailing websites, curtain shops, hardware stores
............quokka(WA), trading posts, for sale sections in newspapers. If you see an old windsurfer in a driveway, knock on the door, put up a wanted notice at the corner shop, or supermarket. yacht club clearout days.....
G"DAY splitpin
splitpin
splitpin
104 posts
104 posts
12 May 2009 9:05pm
landyacht said...

splitpin said...

[]apart from windsurfer masts i would not know where to source one,so let us all know where they come from,and i am not a student
[









recycling centres, road side rubbish days, scrap yards, windsurfing and sailng shops,aluminium shops, sailing websites, curtain shops, hardware stores
............quokka(WA), trading posts, for sale sections in newspapers. If you see an old windsurfer in a driveway, knock on the door, put up a wanted notice at the corner shop, or supermarket. yacht club clearout days.....
G"DAY splitpin

there is your answer to mast/boom question cameronc good luck around my region you would you would have to travel some distance to chase up all landyachts sujested sites/option

landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
12 May 2009 9:45pm
thats always the problem when you have no name, and no place we can use as a reference. If a person at least puts a state or town in their profile we can assist with more direct links, even in scotland , nevada ,montana, chile, namibia(yup)Libya, or a desert in India, we can help
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
12 May 2009 9:53pm
Clemco said...

Cameron: Yeah that one looks great ,if you can afford that price. I built my first homebuilt using a 5m wind surfing speed sail. I still use that sail now and then.


Gday Clemco , welcome to the fun pages, on ya marks ,get set , GO.
enjoy
NickSh
NickSh
WA
39 posts
WA, 39 posts
12 May 2009 10:22pm
Thanks for putting up the topic posts Gizmo...I haven't come across the mini boom post before.
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