doggies said..
mmmm first day today 800mm 4ft waves
Found it really frustrating !! Hard to get it up on the plain ... once it did was ok..but took a lot of tiring work, and many goes ..
Came back in moved back , and then back then forward .couldn't pump .. until moved forward .
it will take a few goes to dial into , turned well . but i didn't like the drop in between lumps compared to the 1050 with new mast and feels amazing , re adjusting to MA, a little tippy and dropped splat flat on trough waves .. got me into a bit of strife in waves today !
a few more days and i will report again . Maybe more technique is needed.

Dang sounds frustrating. What board were you riding? What foil would you usually ride in those conditions?

Great reviews and comments. I could see having a few of these but not sure where to start. Figuring out how sizes relate to HS CF2 is bit confusing. Getting the 1225 as an all arounder could be nice but not sure that is large enough for DW which is where I'm really in need. Read or heard somewhere more sizes after new year. Maybe something around 1400 would be good for DW with the 1000 for sup/surf and wakesurf? Look forward to any experiences DW with these. Fortunately currently buried in snow so I can wait to see how things pan out before I need to buy.

I had my first session on the ma 1000 yesterday, wind was super gusty 10-20 knts and mostly offshore, waves were around head high with some bigger sets

So nice and smooth on the the wave, turns great , I usually use either the cfv2 1200 , 950 or ha 925 . Cfv2 in the bigger waves and ha 925 for smaller waves and rolling swells , the MA definitely feels like the love child of my two favourite foil types, as eppo said there is definitely some HA traits in there and the great turning and low stall speed of the cfv2 .
Gybing is easier than the ha but I needed to be a little more gentle with foot swap compared to cfv2.
I found I had to move my back foot back about 40 mm .
I was using original 85 mast 60 fuse and chopped v tail and smik 75 L board.
Looking forward to my next session, thanks Margaret River wing foil for getting me this nice bit of kit .

Some theoretical input from my side:

DISCLAIMER:
- Only for those, who are interested in theoretical aspects of wing design! Any others: Please dont read!
- Because I am new in the forum, I am not allowed to post pictures or links...

1) Wing-Outline:

Ideally you should have an elliptical lift distribution. You can achieve this by making the wing outline elliptical and/or decreasing the lift towards the wingtips by using less angle of incidence and/or using a profile with less chamber. The F-One phantom for example shows an decreasing 3 degree angle of incidenc (AOI) from the middle section of the wing towards the wingtips. This has an additional effect: The stall behaviour gets better due to different angles over the wingspan. Phantoms are often reported to be very "user-friendly"!

The biggest concern of a hydrofoil designer is the induced drag at the wingtips. (high pressure under the wing and low pressure above the wing causes vortices). The higher the aspect ratio, the lower the influence of the induced drag. Thats why HA wings have a good glide.

The price for a high AR in winging:
1) Less maneuverability
2) shorter chord means less thickness, in combination with higher span means higher bending stress, which can reach stiffness and stability limits at a certain point.

2) Airfoil:

With "airfoil" I mean the longitudinal / cross section of a wing. There are thousands of airfoils existing. You can find them in databases like "airfoiltools.com" For my 1.070 custom-wing I used an airfoil similar/identical to my F-one Phantom 1.480. It is a "GOE 682"- You can find it at "airfoiltools.com". Also Clark-Y, Aquila, different NACA-airfoils are often used. Most of them were developed decades ago...

Numbers of my f-one phantom 1.480 and custom-made 1.070:
Thickness 10,7% at 30%
Chamber 4,2% at 40%
max. chord 205mm (1.480) / 170mm (1.070)

Typical numbers for front wings:
Thickness 8 to 14% at 30%
Chamber 2 to 5% at 40%

Typical numbers for backwing/stabilizer:
Thickness 7 to 14% at 30% to 40%
Chamber 1 to 2% at 40%

Chamber in this case means the over-all-curve of the airfoil, not the convex part of the airfoil bottom.
For every airfoil there are diagramms describing the correllation between lift, drag and angle of attack (AOA):
For exmaple: Highest Lift/Drag ratio = best glide

Less thickness: Faster, less drag, less user-friendly (eg stall, low speed) and vice-versa
Less chamber: Faster, less lift and vice versa

Another example:

The famous Sabfoil/Moses W 1100 has a "half-symetrical" cross-section with not so much chamber: For a big wing you can go really fast, less drag from the airfoil, but more drag because of the size/wingspan.

On the other hand the F-One Phantom uses an airfoil with more chamber (4-5%) and convex bottom part. With this foil you can go smaller, beacuse it generates more lift out of the same area. More airfoil-drag due to the camber but less drag due to less span, combined with more maneuverability.

3) Conclusion:

Its always a combination of prameters like outline (AR) and airfoil which define the characteristics of a hydrofoil. And then it has to fit to rider abilities, rider weight, kind of riding, spot, wind, eg...

But I think, understanding how a foil works makes it a little bit easier choosing the right one.

Tried today the MA 1225 under 10 knots and after with 14-17 knots. (68L + 5m). really good wing. Really easy. Almost the same lift than the 1550 and more glide more turn and more fun. Also fun to jump for a such big wing. really good. I have to try now the MA800.

I want a 1225 after riding it But that's for small surf days on the prone. The 1000 still requires some technique - speed over wing. Far more nimble as you'd expect but the stall speed on the 1225 is super low. Goes forever. Be a nice big guy wing wing foil. The 1000 when wind is healthy.

Freebordnig123 said..

kiwiupover said..
At 95kgs, i'm currently using the 1550v2 for everything (and using the HS232 and HA195 tails). It's time for me to go to a 2-foil quiver... but this is making the picture complicated :-)

Does the MA1225 cover the range of both the HS1250 and the HS1550v2? Sounds like maybe the 1550v2 has slightly lower take-off speed, but the MA1225 has the same top-end speed of the 1250?

Before the MA's came out, I was looking to add the HS1250 for more fun in 18+kn days and to get some more speed & glide in easy waves

I am 95kgs and used the 1550v2 the other day winging with the new 795 mast the foil felt like an 1850 same lift with better turning and lower stall speed. The new mast changed everything it was extremely responsive and I could ride chest high waves with no issues, also was a game changer going up wind. I have been using a friends H1000 with no issues I was quite amazed I could ride such a small foil. After trying the new mast I am getting the MA1000 and keeping the 1550V2 and have a CF2050 for light days. What I would recommend is to get the MA1000 and CF2050 as the CF2050 is better than the 1850 in my option.

I am 95kgs and used the 1550v2 the other day winging with the new 795 mast the foil felt like an 1850 same lift with better turning and lower stall speed. The new mast changed everything it was extremely responsive and I could ride chest high waves with no issues, also was a game changer going up wind. I have been using a friends H1000 with no issues I was quite amazed I could ride such a small foil. After trying the new mast I am getting the MA1000 and keeping the 1550V2 and have a CF2050 for light days. What I would recommend is to get the MA1000 and CF2050 as the CF2050 is better than the 1850 in my option.

mudlake said..

patronus said..
When you say 'Thickness 8 to 14% at 30%', 14% of what and 30% of what?

of chord length!
example: For chord length of 100mm: thickness 8 to 14mm at 30mm from the leading edge

Ah OK, so where along the span is the 30% measurement made,, or when you say 8 to 14mm is it 14mm in middle of span and 8mm near tips?
Is the max chamber always the same %age along the span for a given foil.

Sonsaleta said..
Tried today the MA 1225 under 10 knots and after with 14-17 knots. (68L + 5m). really good wing. Really easy. Almost the same lift than the 1550 and more glide more turn and more fun. Also fun to jump for a such big wing. really good. I have to try now the MA800.

After another session today I would add that this 1225 has a lot of quality but has drag when you have more wind and you want to accelerate. Tough to have everything.
i tried also the MA800 but in light wind and almost no wave so I can't say too much. Just I can say that it's easy, a lot of lift (wind 10-13 knots) and less pump than the HA725. I have to try it more in normal conditions with waves to give a better opinion.

To give a good example about the pumping, when it's light (10-12 knots) before a tack I try to pump a bit too gain speed and I start my tack. During the end of the turn if I don't have enough speed I can pump the 725 with my feet and I can save my ass like that and keep going flying. With the MA800 with light wind it's not possible. But in the same time in normal conditions of wind if someone is passive and maybe has an average level it will be easier to do moves with the HA800 than the HA725.

eppo said..
I want a 1225 after riding it But that's for small surf days on the prone. The 1000 still requires some technique - speed over wing. Far more nimble as you'd expect but the stall speed on the 1225 is super low. Goes forever. Be a nice big guy wing wing foil. The 1000 when wind is healthy.

How about on an old mast? Poverty beckons, my kids are skinny, the authorities would lock me up if I had a new front wing and a new mast!

beached57 said..

WingOut said..
Hi, thank you sharing your experience about the new MAs! Exciting!
I have the HS1850 and thinking about the HS1250. Matt Nuzzo recommends the MA1000 for the HS1250 instead of the MA1225 (My weight is 95kg). I'm unsure whether the step from the HS1850 to the MA1000 is too big. Or is the HS1250 better? I would be very happy about your assessment.

i've ordered the ma1225, but can't comment on it yet. but i have the 1850 and 1250, am 90kgs. i rarely use the 1250, probably because i'm so comfortable on the 1850 and i find i need a lot more power/speed to make the 1250 work. i was told not to get the 1550 because it would overlap with the 1850 too much. apparently the ma1225 is closer to the hs1550 and ma1000 closer to the hs1250. so for me, since i already know the hs1250 doesn't get a lot use, i went with the ma1225 which hopefully WILL get more use, and have better performance and a bit more glide than the 1850.

Yeh that's a decent call actually haven ridden both the 1000 and the 1225. The 1225 will Ask a lot more of you but unlike the HA it's asking far less tougher questions. The 1850 Is the ultimate session saver but boring and dull as hell. You will enjoy the 1225 in decent conditions. When marginal or in doubt whack the 1850 on.




to the guy above . maybe follow the same suite. Yes the 1000 is closer to the 1250 but it requires far more of you than say the 1250. It still has some HA tendencies. Too big a gap with that and the 1850 at your weight I'd say.

onviosuly in a perfect world you'd have a 1000 as well but someone has to feed the kids now and then.

At long last it appears we may have a day of wind this week. If conditions show, I plan to get out for a while and will do some back to back testing of the MA800 compared to the HA725.

From what I've read from others, I'm anticipating that the 725 is going to still be my favorite, however, the one place factor that could make all the difference is the stability of the MA800 through white water. Not so sure we're going to have much in the way of surf, but I should at least have a sense of the performance between the two on knee to waist high stuff.

Oahuwaterwalker said..
At long last it appears we may have a day of wind this week. If conditions show, I plan to get out for a while and will do some back to back testing of the MA800 compared to the HA725.

From what I've read from others, I'm anticipating that the 725 is going to still be my favorite, however, the one place factor that could make all the difference is the stability of the MA800 through white water. Not so sure we're going to have much in the way of surf, but I should at least have a sense of the performance between the two on knee to waist high stuff.

Yeh my son said the same thing today on his 725 on the new mast towing into decent swell behind a ski. But I made the point imagine how hard you could push it on the 800. Not that we have one yet

bolocom said..

eppo said..

beached57 said..

WingOut said..
Hi, thank you sharing your experience about the new MAs! Exciting!
I have the HS1850 and thinking about the HS1250. Matt Nuzzo recommends the MA1000 for the HS1250 instead of the MA1225 (My weight is 95kg). I'm unsure whether the step from the HS1850 to the MA1000 is too big. Or is the HS1250 better? I would be very happy about your assessment.

i've ordered the ma1225, but can't comment on it yet. but i have the 1850 and 1250, am 90kgs. i rarely use the 1250, probably because i'm so comfortable on the 1850 and i find i need a lot more power/speed to make the 1250 work. i was told not to get the 1550 because it would overlap with the 1850 too much. apparently the ma1225 is closer to the hs1550 and ma1000 closer to the hs1250. so for me, since i already know the hs1250 doesn't get a lot use, i went with the ma1225 which hopefully WILL get more use, and have better performance and a bit more glide than the 1850.

Yeh that's a decent call actually haven ridden both the 1000 and the 1225. The 1225 will Ask a lot more of you but unlike the HA it's asking far less tougher questions. The 1850 Is the ultimate session saver but boring and dull as hell. You will enjoy the 1225 in decent conditions. When marginal or in doubt whack the 1850 on.




to the guy above . maybe follow the same suite. Yes the 1000 is closer to the 1250 but it requires far more of you than say the 1250. It still has some HA tendencies. Too big a gap with that and the 1850 at your weight I'd say.

onviosuly in a perfect world you'd have a 1000 as well but someone has to feed the kids now and then.

That's interesting. My 2 go to front wings are the 925 and 1850. The 1850 with the V tail is nimble and quick for its size. Goes great in the surf and glides forever. I use 5m as my largest wing, with the 1850 I can get out in 10 to 12 knots, if it goes over 15 I change to the 925. 88kg 70l board.

Based on what you're doing already, I'm pretty sure you could get the 925 going in 10-12 knots if you had a 6m.

Had my first real Downwind cracker today with swell and lots of wind. That 1000 acted like a controllable 925, so good. Put a smile on my dial. Longest flags ever - really appreciate its stability (and the new mast) when it counts in the more serious stuff. Came alive.