Put in 17 miles (27km) today on the MA800 and then a second session with the HA725 for about half that distance. Bear in mind these are my first impressions, but they align with eppo's experience on the other MA foils.

Winds were light, around 8-12 +/- knots and I was riding a 5.2 Reedin, the performance 935 mast, 195 tail, on 69L board. There was chest high wind swell with some slightly larger peaks once out in deep blue ocean.

-Lift wise to foil, it's very close to the 725 but I think the 725 is faster to get on foil I could feel the difference between the two in drag when trying to get to foil speed. Specifically, the 725 has less and faster to release from the water.

-Once up, the 800 is VERY stable. It's much easier to ride than the 725. The 800 turns great and is pretty fast on the top end. By comparison, I find the 725 accelerates faster but in the same conditions, my peak speeds were no different between the two.

-Water turbulence seems easier to handle on the 800 and pitch stability is like riding a size up in foil, but still having the turning of a small foil. I never felt like I would foil out even when turning really hard on a steeper section and dropping into the trough.

-The 725 glides better, no question about that.

-The difference in turning between the two is subtle. I still need a bigger swell day to write much more about that. Also, I am more than likely going to keep the 725 and switch to a 50cm fuse which should up the turning game quite a bit (not that its bad now by any means). The 800 does have a feel more like the 1050 in the way that it rolls in turns. For those who love that wing, this might make you sell yours.

Where I could see the 800 really shining is for prone or guys riding more powerful and critical surf than what we typically have in Kailua. It's also a GREAT foil for wingers who haven't been riding small HA wings and wants a small surfy wing that is also fairly stable. Also, I could see a 600-650cm version being a more user friendly alternative to the 525. I would likely be all in for something like that.

Like eppo's son, I had a blast riding it and though I'm not done with it yet, I think I prefer the 725 for getting on foil easier and the acceleration. The 935 mast has completely unleashed the performance potential from the 725, it's like a different wing now.

As far as the future goes for my 800, I'm going to hold onto it for a bigger surf day to see what it's like in white water and more powerful waves. Unless there's something really amazing about how it handles in those conditions, I can't see sacrificing some of the glide and acceleration of the 725 for the very minor (relative) improvement in turning. At the end of the day, I could be very happy with either, I just prefer the 725 so far.

ok good to see some reviews coming through and seems same comments .

so here goes , spent 2 hours on the 1000 then went straight to the 800 for another 2 hrs doing the exact same thing ... learnt alot. But first before they relesed the MA I got a chance and Demoed the 935 mast straight away with my 1050 and changed between 232 and 195 tail , first ride couldn't go back and bought the mast straight away ... game changer for me...

Id already paid for 800ma and was ready to go .... uh o.. this is where it changes
> technique needs to change when using these foils .... im so used to the 1050 and 850 mast for last 2 years i was stuck in my ways to say for take off.

Absolutely struggled on first 2 session of set up ... just could not get these foils to get up on plane ...
I ride 73ltr ppc , just couldn't get it up (so frustrated )

so this is what i did...Reversed red shim 195 tail (shim at front of back tail)..
then put 1mm shim under BACK of mast to board , now to get lift off ,,, don't pump.. point down wind and pump kite and get speed..
the foil comes up by itself ... the more you pump it the harder it seems , once up ... hard to get it down and glides well.

The 1000 just simply makes the 1250 obserlete it was just so much more better . but turns like 1050 ,,, now if you jump on the 800
same sort of feeling with glide and pump but heaps more surf like turning ... loved it

was in some solid waves today and it really handled it well , just kept gliding and probably did some of the tightest turns , that did not breach ,,, Im so exited as its like starting again sort of but more surf orientaded
on a whole new level ..

Was pissed off at first , but that was set up and technique , but now set up , dealing with it in on bigger waves and pump ,
yup ...
they are very good . and can't wait to do it again .. the new froth has just begun again ......its a step forward for sure !!!
thumbs up to Armstrong on this one ... thumbs down to bank balance ... but its ok ..
ive got a veggie patch , and kids need to eat more veggies anyway

eppo said..
Great insights above. Just a note after reading doggies post .. If you have only ever used the the HS range you will have some teething issues especially starting the foil. I rode HS, HAs for a year then went back to HS for theee months before getting the MA. When first starting I was like wtf? But luckily I could realised I had to take some HA tricks out of my tool box.

So there will be some adjustment.
that includes proning the Ma 1000 - pumping wise. It takes some HA know how. Be honest I was hoping for more plug and play pumping wise on the prone - but hey it is an advanced surf foil. Can't have ya cake and eat it.

so be patient if you haven't had much or any experience with HAs.


. had another DW today - not as windy or as much swell as yesterday - but I'm starting to really dial this 1000 in. Recon I flagged 80-85 percent of the 14km (in a straight line trip). I was cooked at the end of it (how these Sup foil DW crew do it . I have no idea!!!

but linking just about every swell line . little kicks of small bumps into larger swells. Have a really good grip on the stall speed now. Like the Has it likes a couple of pumps then glide. Couple of pumps then glide. Don't over pump it.

Felt almost 925 ish to be perfectly honest. As said above doesn't accelerate as quick as the 925 but man the top speed and gliding onto bumps was close man. Mainly because you can drive so hard without worrying about some bipolar weird crap behaviour. Turns, rolls then glides onto the bump with such precision and control.

Honestly stoked on this wing.

I 100% agree that the predictability could be the attraction to the MA over the HA. Even in small stuff yesterday I felt like I could push it harder.

I found the 800 to be very stable and I could control my height easily. When switching back to the 725 I was back to feeling some of the micro shifts in altitude and I had to pay more attention to my altitude. Of course there's always a trade off.

If I could custom order my perfect 700-800 wing it would be somewhere between the 725 and 800, lol.

I look forward to getting a session on the 800 in bigger surf/swell.

I am finding the MA1000 transfers a lot more vibration in turbulent waters than the HS1250 and I am using the 935HPM.. anyone else experiencing this...

paulweller2 said..

AndyLancelin said..
I am finding the MA1000 transfers a lot more vibration in turbulent waters than the HS1250 and I am using the 935HPM.. anyone else experiencing this...

More chord length should amount to more stability in whitewater. The MAs are closer to the HAs in terms of chord. The HSs and CFs are most stable in whitewater. You'll get used to it.

Yeh what Paul said. Those of us that have used the HAs a lot can't believe how much more stable the 1000 is in whitewater and breach control. But I actually went back to the 1250 for 3-4 months before the MA came out and I can't say I've noticed more vibration.

Theoretically I suppose it shouldn't be as stable in whitewater than the 1250. but that being said what you do get on the MA is consistent lift - even at high speeds. Add the breach control has really made the 1250 almost obsolete really, except if you were just starting out maybe. or just happy with what you got.

as some of us has said, if you haven't used HAs before there is still some adjustment to be made. but it won't take long.

Sonsaleta said..

Sonsaleta said..

Sonsaleta said..
Tried today the MA 1225 under 10 knots and after with 14-17 knots. (68L + 5m). really good wing. Really easy. Almost the same lift than the 1550 and more glide more turn and more fun. Also fun to jump for a such big wing. really good. I have to try now the MA800.

After another session today I would add that this 1225 has a lot of quality but has drag when you have more wind and you want to accelerate. Tough to have everything.
i tried also the MA800 but in light wind and almost no wave so I can't say too much. Just I can say that it's easy, a lot of lift (wind 10-13 knots) and less pump than the HA725. I have to try it more in normal conditions with waves to give a better opinion.

To give a good example about the pumping, when it's light (10-12 knots) before a tack I try to pump a bit too gain speed and I start my tack. During the end of the turn if I don't have enough speed I can pump the 725 with my feet and I can save my ass like that and keep going flying. With the MA800 with light wind it's not possible. But in the same time in normal conditions of wind if someone is passive and maybe has an average level it will be easier to do moves with the HA800 than the HA725.

I tried again the 800 with more wind and a bit of waves. I was using mainly the 725 and I think I gonna switch definitely (for wing) to the 800. To make it simple, it doesn't change your life , you do at the end the same things with the 725 or the 800 but everything is a bit easier with the 800. Except for the pumping I prefer to use the 800. It also demands less physically. So at the end with I will use
1225 for 7-13 knots
up of 11-12 knots the 800
same stab : HA195 (+1 shim the red one). easy :)

"It doesn't change your life ". Well put inwas trying to summarise how I felt about the MA wing. Armie riders who have been through all the foil types will probably feel similar. It just makes perfect sense when you ride it. You can feel the different lineages in the wing. That being said the flagging rate on the DWs are rapaidly increasing with each session. Because you can push at speed and also turn so much harder off bumps with control. Plus no weird crap when pumping and far more forgiving stall speed.

. the mast however - I can safely say that is something else !

hey I stuck a blue pill (shim) on the 1000 yesterday (HA 195). Unlocked a noticeable increase in speed and glide. I mentioned to Oskar I was thinking of doing it and he said "yep already have".
My back tail only whistles now when at my high speed (it was a bad whistler and had to sand from the get go). Yesterday (gay flat water 5m session no swell as normal in Mandurah ) she was whistling Dixie most the session. Good indicater of increased average speed. Must be something to do with the new rake mast and pitch of the MA.


also did a number of wing behind back straight downwind runs . and even with the lighter wind and no swell nor any decent wind bumps was able to continually glide at will. Also another test I use
for out and out glide.

anyhow crew you might wanna try it..especially those who have used the HAs before and feeling a little "oh yeh ho hum".

Oahuwaterwalker said..

hey I stuck a blue pill (shim) on the 1000 yesterday (HA 195). Unlocked a noticeable increase in speed and glide. I mentioned to Oskar I was thinking of doing it and he said "yep already have".
My back tail only whistles now when at my high speed (it was a bad whistler and had to sand from the get go). Yesterday (gay flat water 5m session no swell as normal in Mandurah ) she was whistling Dixie most the session. Good indicater of increased average speed. Must be something to do with the new rake mast and pitch of the MA.

I was curious about this, good to read you had positive results and that Oskar gave you the thumbs up . That guy is an animal on foil so it's always nice to have that kind of validation on your set up choices.

Hopefully, we should have a little more wind this week. December and January can be dismally bad in Hawaii for wind. I plan to give the shim thing a go as well.

Eppo, out of curiosity, how do you compare the 1000 to the 925 for ease of getting to foil and then turning once up? I got rid of my 925 because I didn't find any real advantage in terms of low end and the 725 turns so much better in surf/swell.

Ah it's like all aspects of that wing
comparatively to the 925. Easier to get up for sure but takes a slight bit of HA know how - which you have. And of course harder than the 1250 but this gap is closing fast the more you are on it for ease of getting up.

Still requires a bit of board speed like the 925 but less pogo jump frogging - is less sensitive. Compared to the 725 it would be like shelling peas for you.



Turning: it rolls much better than the 925 rail to rail , tip to tip. For me the 925 was still a tad to wide - 1000 is only 850 ish wide. Probably why I only tow foiled with the 725 - never liked the 925 and it's unpredictability when turning sharp. The 1000 has none of that.


It's an easy choice for me 925 versus 1000 and I recon a lot of 925 advocates but the 725 versus the 800 crew like yourself, that's more of a dilemma.



HA riders will lose something on the MA foils. But gain other things. Hard one.

hey jason
yup nearly had 8 or 9 sessions now on 800ma
Wow its starting to feel amazing , long glides , but like today .. pull on wing ,pedal to the metal and boom to get to sections on wave ,
it gets you there , took a little adjusting , but i now feel its time to push these ma to next level as it feels , its the riders ability
not the other way around as when you make the mistake ... it only happens once ... then you know ... and you don't do it again..
its a different technique of riding but I'm now way more on back foot surf style , for turns .
i like it!!!!

Hey wingnutz I moved my mast foreword about 12 mm and I also shimmed the front of the baseplate to board connection 2 mm and that feels right for me , I'm using original mast, 60 fuse and v tail at -1 degree , just experiment and see what feels right.

yesterday got my MA1225 and had first day out on it, though it was end of day and i was already spent from kite foiling. had to take it out for a try on the wing gear for a short session. i've never been on any Armie HA wing, just HS and CF wings, so i'm coming from that background. i'm about 90 kgs. i was surprised how much more effort it took to get up on foil than with the HS1850. winds were good, about 16-20 knots and used a 6m wing on 75l board. but once up, it was rock solid, butter smooth, and fast. think i'll enjoy this wing mostly in stronger winds since i can't see it working for me in the light stuff. but i immediately liked it better than my HS1250. the glide, though only tested very shortly, felt much better than my HS's. so i think HS1850 followed by MA1225 as winds pick up will be a winner.

First prone session on the 1000 in some small knee to waist clean waves. First tried the 232 tail with blue shim and it felt a bit draggy in the rear so swapped to the fv200 and felt much better. The thing carves amazing - more relaxing - steezy carves compared to the 925 for sure. Cannot wait to get more water time, especially winging. The other thing I noticed is just how smooth it lifts out of the water. It was tough going in a 5/4 with mittens and I messed up quite a few waves. Pretty forgiving with bad food placement (doesn't dive left or right for example).

Breached a wingtip kicking off a wave and barely noticed, so nice!

Hey Frothers,

For those who've tried both, how do you find the difference in low end between the MA1000 and the MA1225?
I'm aware of their equivalents 1000 = 925/1250 and 1225 = 1125/1550. I've had 1250/1850 and now have 925/1325 combo now at 90kgs and that covers me most of my conditions winging. So ideally a MA1000 and the rumored MA1400 (anyone have rumors on the bigger MA1400 release date?) would be a great replacement but in the mean time I'm wondering if I could just rock the 1000 and 1225, especially if they have a meaningful difference in low end. I heard the difference between 925 and 1125 wasn't that big on the low end so I skipped the 1125 entirely. I've also never had a 1225 size wing in the quiver so curious as to how it could fit in.

Getting decent at winging and loving the glide of the HA's for tacks and bumps but really miss the surfy feeling of the HS's.
I appreciate the feedback.

aahi said..
Hey Frothers,

For those who've tried both, how do you find the difference in low end between the MA1000 and the MA1225?
I'm aware of their equivalents 1000 = 9/1250 and 1225 = 1125/1550. I've had 1250/1850 and now have 925/1325 combo now at 90kgs and that covers me most of my conditions winging. So ideally a MA1000 and the rumored MA1400 (anyone have rumors on the bigger MA1400 release date?) would be a great replacement but in the mean time I'm wondering if I could just rock the 1000 and 1225, especially if they have a meaningful difference in low end. I heard the difference between 925 and 1125 wasn't that big on the low end so I skipped the 1125 entirely. I've also never had a 1225 size wing in the quiver so curious as to how it could fit in.

Getting decent at winging and loving the glide of the HA's for tacks and bumps but really miss the surfy feeling of the HS's.
I appreciate the feedback.

I've spent the last week on the 935 mast/800 MA combo, winging. In conditions ranging from 10-30 knots. Riding every day from 1h to 4h sessions. Using my whole quiver of wings: 3.5, 4.2, 4.5 and 5.5. Both 90L and 60L boards and always 60cm fuse and 195 stab. No shims. Mast position 0.5cm back compared to my 850/925 combo. From super flat to head high swell and plenty of waves it's been sensational.

A couple of standouts:
- it flies upwind - especially if you focus on trimming the mast to ride high ( I feel like I can point as high riding switch now as I could riding normally with my old rig)
- it turns on a dime
- it eliminates all unforced errors (breaches, spin-outs etc)
- most amazingly - it handles marginal conditions well (I was impressed when I tested it in 8-10 knots with the 5.5m2 wing - I was not expecting it to have such a low end
- of course it handles strong wind (30 knots) really well - it seemingly has no upper end (whereas my old combo would crash or breach at really high speed from time to time)
- you can just forget about the foil rig and focus on riding the swell and waves
- it's stable underfoot - ie behaves well with foot switches.
Other observations:
- in marginal conditions I found it better to get going by unweighting my feet whilst simultaneously pumping the wing as opposed to pumping the foil
- the 800 MA could be a quiver killer/one foil for competent wingers - it could replace my 925/1250 combo
- for me a 2 foil quiver for winging could be the 800/1000 - I don't see a role for the 1225 for winging (now that I've spent a week riding the 800
- as others have said, it helps to have HA-experience or knowledge - especially useful in marginal conditions. In moderate to strong wind it takes off smoothly as expected
- so I'm not sure it's a beginner-friendly foil (maybe the 1225 will be more so?)

Hope that helps if you extrapolate that to your question.

eppo said..

Ah I've only proned both, only winged the 1000. But will try the 1225 soon on a low wind day. Haven't had many of those lately

I know the pump and glide is significantly different on the 1225. much slower cadence as you'd expect and very low stall speed compared to the 1000. Kind of no brainer pumping and effortless. Not knackered when linking out back on the 1225.

how this translates to low end start on a wing . hard to tell. It might be relatively equivalent to the 1325 given it is much easier to start these wings than the HA.

I know my mate has winged the 1225 heaps (bigger fella) on the A plus mast and he's having no issues relative to his much used 1550 V2.

thank you for the feedback, good to know you feel a noticeable difference in the two wings proning which I think is a good indicator for winging. exactly what I wanted to know.
cheers!

aahi said..

ArthurAlston said..


I've spent the last week on the 935 mast/800 MA combo, winging. In conditions ranging from 10-30 knots. Riding every day from 1h to 4h sessions. Using my whole quiver of wings: 3.5, 4.2, 4.5 and 5.5. Both 90L and 60L boards and always 60cm fuse and 195 stab. No shims. Mast position 0.5cm back compared to my 850/925 combo. From super flat to head high swell and plenty of waves it's been sensational.

A couple of standouts:
- it flies upwind - especially if you focus on trimming the mast to ride high ( I feel like I can point as high riding switch now as I could riding normally with my old rig)
- it turns on a dime
- it eliminates all unforced errors (breaches, spin-outs etc)
- most amazingly - it handles marginal conditions well (I was impressed when I tested it in 8-10 knots with the 5.5m2 wing - I was not expecting it to have such a low end
- of course it handles strong wind (30 knots) really well - it seemingly has no upper end (whereas my old combo would crash or breach at really high speed from time to time)
- you can just forget about the foil rig and focus on riding the swell and waves
- it's stable underfoot - ie behaves well with foot switches.
Other observations:
- in marginal conditions I found it better to get going by unweighting my feet whilst simultaneously pumping the wing as opposed to pumping the foil
- the 800 MA could be a quiver killer/one foil for competent wingers - it could replace my 925/1250 combo
- for me a 2 foil quiver for winging could be the 800/1000 - I don't see a role for the 1225 for winging (now that I've spent a week riding the 800
- as others have said, it helps to have HA-experience or knowledge - especially useful in marginal conditions. In moderate to strong wind it takes off smoothly as expected
- so I'm not sure it's a beginner-friendly foil (maybe the 1225 will be more so?)

Hope that helps if you extrapolate that to your question.

Well I guess I'm gonna have to get all three sizes!!

sounds like you had a great time, I'm jealous! Thank you for the feedback, can I ask what your weight is?

sounds like a plan!

About 80 kg / 176 pounds.