Vicente said..

beached57 said..

Vicente said..
Hi
have someone ever tried the MA wings for kiting? If so, how was it? What's your weight and feedback?
thanks

yes, but only quickly. was on ma1225 and wind was light and gusty (8-14 mph), with 8m Peak kite. it all felt very bad as the foil kept dropping in the lulls. switched back to my CF1200 and was much better. won't be using the ma1225 for kiting. i'm sure with better conditions and more practice, it could go better...but unless i'm in an exploratory mood, i'll stick with the CFs for kiting.

Thanks for your answer.

Have your ever tried any other wing with a larger AR prior to this experience with the MA1225? Was the problem the high stall speed? If I you don't mind in telling me, what's your weight?

sorry for many questions but I am considering to buy a MA1225 as a single wing for prone surfing and kiting.

i'm about 200 lbs and have not used a high aspect front wing for kiting previously. but i've had similar bad experiences on my CF800 kiting when there isn't enough wind. i've not had any issues winging with the MA1225, and i've gone VERY slow winging with it. again, i wasn't out there kiting long and gave up on it because i knew the CF1200 was working fine in those conditions. overall, i suspect the MA1225 may be too much wing for kiting and the MA1000 would probably be better for that. and proners around here are talking about the MA1000, not the 1225.

Finally got a session with MA800 and some overhead surf. As I hoped, the performance is really outstanding. Easy to bank and never felt like it was going to foil out (two drops were 3-5ft overhead). Great foil. Still, I'm not sure I'm ready to give up the 725. The words that comes to mind with the 725 are "peak performance" the word with the 800 is "east and fun." Both are terrific.

I also got an hour in with the MA1000. First it's vastly easier than the 800 to get on foil. I was able to pump to foil in about 10 knots with a 5.2 Reedin, 69l board. Plus it stays on foil down to a very low speed. I'll write more about this later, gotta run.

I'll keep experimenting.

Windoc said..
MA1225: I really can't believe the range and performance of this foil. I put in a reversed .5 shim on the 195 tail because of the pitch instability that was I was getting. I'm realizing that this foil and I'm guessing the other MA sizes need to be even further forward than the HAs I'm used to riding. Frustrating, because I was already maxed forward in the tracks on HAs. Please, manufacturers, longer boxes! The reversed .5 shim transformed the ride for me: much better pitch stability, comfort at speed, great turning (really great!). I could feel more drag and a little reduction in glide but a good compromise. This foil feels super happy in 12knots into 30+. Wow. I could have this as my only foil if I had to The new mast is stellar.

Interesting feedback from a 93kg mate of mine on a 99L FG coming off the 1550 on the A plus mast. Loved every aspect of the 1225 but was having pitch control issues. We tried shimming it (reverse) even putting a mast shim in and pushing it all the way forward in the Fg box. Still no banana.


eventually with the shim plate in, and mast 2cm forward of his normal HS position but with the original 232 it was sweet. Couldn't make it work with the Ha tail.


so bigger guys with bigger boards and lots of undue swing weight - riding on the A plus older mast and the HA tail - there may be some compatability issues with the pitch on these MAs. ? Not an issue with new mast I'd say because I've had zero adjustment needed. In fact I've gone positive on the shim side of things.

maybe the new 235 MA tail will make a difference as well given the older 232 was the key ingredient here.

eppo said..

Windoc said..
MA1225: I really can't believe the range and performance of this foil. I put in a reversed .5 shim on the 195 tail because of the pitch instability that was I was getting. I'm realizing that this foil and I'm guessing the other MA sizes need to be even further forward than the HAs I'm used to riding. Frustrating, because I was already maxed forward in the tracks on HAs. Please, manufacturers, longer boxes! The reversed .5 shim transformed the ride for me: much better pitch stability, comfort at speed, great turning (really great!). I could feel more drag and a little reduction in glide but a good compromise. This foil feels super happy in 12knots into 30+. Wow. I could have this as my only foil if I had to The new mast is stellar.

Interesting feedback from a 93kg mate of mine on a 99L FG coming off the 1550 on the A plus mast. Loved every aspect of the 1225 but was having pitch control issues. We tried shimming it (reverse) even putting a mast shim in and pushing it all the way forward in the Fg box. Still no banana.


eventually with the shim plate in, and mast 2cm forward of his normal HS position but with the original 232 it was sweet. Couldn't make it work with the Ha tail.


so bigger guys with bigger boards and lots of undue swing weight - riding on the A plus older mast and the HA tail - there may be some compatability issues with the pitch on these MAs. ? Not an issue with new mast I'd say because I've had zero adjustment needed. In fact I've gone positive on the shim side of things.

maybe the new 235 MA tail will make a difference as well given the older 232 was the key ingredient here.

1000x thx eppo. compatability issues With 85A+ is what I feared (see my post above). I am 96 kg

I've been spoiled by the HA195 tail as I previously could use it for all of my foils with one red shim, mast all the way forward. The MAs seem to need (or at least in my experience with the 1225) a possibly more powerful tail for a heavier rider and are very pitch sensitive if you can't get them far enough forward. I saw video of myself on the 1225 and my back foot was really far behind the mast using a red shim just to get better balance in the upper speed range as it would pitch forward or feel squirrely. Negative shimming solved this but the ability to slide my mast forward another 5-10 cm would have been better for really dialling in the feel. I also found that the HA195 tail was drifting or losing grip in tight turns, so maybe the new 235 or 205 will help recover some grip? Despite this, the foil is insane even on my non-optimal wing board set up . I have an FG SUP at least, so more room to dial in mast position without resorting only to neg shimming as an option. For sure the Armie gear can be less than plug and play as far as the amount of tuning options are concerned but once you dial everything in for your weight and taste it's sweet.

WingOut said..

eppo said..

WingOut said..

eppo said..

Windoc said..
MA1225: I really can't believe the range and performance of this foil. I put in a reversed .5 shim on the 195 tail because of the pitch instability that was I was getting. I'm realizing that this foil and I'm guessing the other MA sizes need to be even further forward than the HAs I'm used to riding. Frustrating, because I was already maxed forward in the tracks on HAs. Please, manufacturers, longer boxes! The reversed .5 shim transformed the ride for me: much better pitch stability, comfort at speed, great turning (really great!). I could feel more drag and a little reduction in glide but a good compromise. This foil feels super happy in 12knots into 30+. Wow. I could have this as my only foil if I had to The new mast is stellar.

Interesting feedback from a 93kg mate of mine on a 99L FG coming off the 1550 on the A plus mast. Loved every aspect of the 1225 but was having pitch control issues. We tried shimming it (reverse) even putting a mast shim in and pushing it all the way forward in the Fg box. Still no banana.


eventually with the shim plate in, and mast 2cm forward of his normal HS position but with the original 232 it was sweet. Couldn't make it work with the Ha tail.


so bigger guys with bigger boards and lots of undue swing weight - riding on the A plus older mast and the HA tail - there may be some compatability issues with the pitch on these MAs. ? Not an issue with new mast I'd say because I've had zero adjustment needed. In fact I've gone positive on the shim side of things.

maybe the new 235 MA tail will make a difference as well given the older 232 was the key ingredient here.

1000x thx eppo. compatability issues With 85A+ is what I feared (see my post above). I am 96 kg

Well yes it may be the case but I'm only going off one personal experience. And in the end my mate put the 232 on, went forward two places and it was superb. Far better still than being on his 1550.
I can only assume the new 235 (built on the 232 idea) will complete the picture for him.

armie gear can be frustrating with all the changes you can make but also that can be a good thing like in this case.

Hopefully my mates experience can help others who are scrarching their heads a bit.

thx eppo and windoc. That helps a lot! I have already ordered the 1225 + 235 anyway. Now I'm thinking hard about the 935.

I'd see how you go on your A plus first. The improvement for my mate just changing to the 1225 was more than just incremental. The good thing about my mates experience was his adjustment process was done largely up at coronations - in sizeable oceanic swell and waves. Wasn't just flat water stuff so I feel the info is legit.

as far as the HA tail goes we have felt it has always found it's limitation with tight hard turning in waves at speed. It could bite then lose grip and drift in critical sections - this is coming from a really good rider here who pushed it harder than most in the waves. I too felt it but not good enough to really highlight it's full limitations in waves .

eppo said..

WingOut said..

eppo said..

Windoc said..
MA1225: I really can't believe the range and performance of this foil. I put in a reversed .5 shim on the 195 tail because of the pitch instability that was I was getting. I'm realizing that this foil and I'm guessing the other MA sizes need to be even further forward than the HAs I'm used to riding. Frustrating, because I was already maxed forward in the tracks on HAs. Please, manufacturers, longer boxes! The reversed .5 shim transformed the ride for me: much better pitch stability, comfort at speed, great turning (really great!). I could feel more drag and a little reduction in glide but a good compromise. This foil feels super happy in 12knots into 30+. Wow. I could have this as my only foil if I had to The new mast is stellar.

Interesting feedback from a 93kg mate of mine on a 99L FG coming off the 1550 on the A plus mast. Loved every aspect of the 1225 but was having pitch control issues. We tried shimming it (reverse) even putting a mast shim in and pushing it all the way forward in the Fg box. Still no banana.


eventually with the shim plate in, and mast 2cm forward of his normal HS position but with the original 232 it was sweet. Couldn't make it work with the Ha tail.


so bigger guys with bigger boards and lots of undue swing weight - riding on the A plus older mast and the HA tail - there may be some compatability issues with the pitch on these MAs. ? Not an issue with new mast I'd say because I've had zero adjustment needed. In fact I've gone positive on the shim side of things.

maybe the new 235 MA tail will make a difference as well given the older 232 was the key ingredient here.

1000x thx eppo. compatability issues With 85A+ is what I feared (see my post above). I am 96 kg

Well yes it may be the case but I'm only going off one personal experience. And in the end my mate put the 232 on, went forward two places and it was superb. Far better still than being on his 1550.
I can only assume the new 235 (built on the 232 idea) will complete the picture for him.

armie gear can be frustrating with all the changes you can make but also that can be a good thing like in this case.

Hopefully my mates experience can help others who are scrarching their heads a bit.

With MA1000 I found the opposite :-). Very choppy and overpowered on 4m, 88l, 85kg/185lb, A+. First session with 232 was pitch unstable. Second session with HA195-no-shim was better, but not good enough.
I moved mast 8 - 10. At 10 it was most pitch stable but couldn't keep nose down in gybes. Unsure if I should keep at 10, change gybe technique and get used to sailing front foot heavy, or go to 8 and get more gybes in but poor pitch control. Any advice?

Just sessioned the MA800 for the first time in some solid wind / wave(bump) action. 795 Mast 50F 195 at 0, 60L, 65kgs 3M OR Glide with 25-30knts side-onshore Chesapeake Bay.
The chop was pretty tight and with chest high feathering wedges popping up everywhere. The breaching capabilities on this wing is just off the charts. Normally would have rode the longer mast, but tide was low. I can count at least 20 breaches during the session that would have sent me swimming or close to it on my HAs. So user friendly.
On this one swell, dropping in crossed up with a bit of power in the wing, I sort of flat breached and the foil skipped like a stone down the face. After 3 or 4 attempts to get under the surface I freaked out and bailed off the side.
Really nice wing for those type conditions!

Is there anyone who can compare the MA 1000 and 1225 to the Cabrinha H Series with a similar surface or a kujira?

eppo said..

patronus said..

eppo said..

patronus said..

eppo said..

WingOut said..

eppo said..

Windoc said..
MA1225: I really can't believe the range and performance of this foil. I put in a reversed .5 shim on the 195 tail because of the pitch instability that was I was getting. I'm realizing that this foil and I'm guessing the other MA sizes need to be even further forward than the HAs I'm used to riding. Frustrating, because I was already maxed forward in the tracks on HAs. Please, manufacturers, longer boxes! The reversed .5 shim transformed the ride for me: much better pitch stability, comfort at speed, great turning (really great!). I could feel more drag and a little reduction in glide but a good compromise. This foil feels super happy in 12knots into 30+. Wow. I could have this as my only foil if I had to The new mast is stellar.

Interesting feedback from a 93kg mate of mine on a 99L FG coming off the 1550 on the A plus mast. Loved every aspect of the 1225 but was having pitch control issues. We tried shimming it (reverse) even putting a mast shim in and pushing it all the way forward in the Fg box. Still no banana.


eventually with the shim plate in, and mast 2cm forward of his normal HS position but with the original 232 it was sweet. Couldn't make it work with the Ha tail.


so bigger guys with bigger boards and lots of undue swing weight - riding on the A plus older mast and the HA tail - there may be some compatability issues with the pitch on these MAs. ? Not an issue with new mast I'd say because I've had zero adjustment needed. In fact I've gone positive on the shim side of things.

maybe the new 235 MA tail will make a difference as well given the older 232 was the key ingredient here.

1000x thx eppo. compatability issues With 85A+ is what I feared (see my post above). I am 96 kg

Well yes it may be the case but I'm only going off one personal experience. And in the end my mate put the 232 on, went forward two places and it was superb. Far better still than being on his 1550.
I can only assume the new 235 (built on the 232 idea) will complete the picture for him.

armie gear can be frustrating with all the changes you can make but also that can be a good thing like in this case.

Hopefully my mates experience can help others who are scrarching their heads a bit.

With MA1000 I found the opposite :-). Very choppy and overpowered on 4m, 88l, 85kg/185lb, A+. First session with 232 was pitch unstable. Second session with HA195-no-shim was better, but not good enough.
I moved mast 8 - 10. At 10 it was most pitch stable but couldn't keep nose down in gybes. Unsure if I should keep at 10, change gybe technique and get used to sailing front foot heavy, or go to 8 and get more gybes in but poor pitch control. Any advice?

I am presuming your are on the A plus mast.
You straight on an A plus 60 fuse?

Any experience on the HA wings ? If not will take a few sessions to adjust. These MAs I feel are closer in feel to the Has than the HS line. Hence they will feel more pitch unstable at first and you may be reaching for more front foot pressure than you need

also you may want to get hold of a shim mast plate.

end of the day my mate ended up 2cm forward, no shim but a mast plate with a 232.


some crew are finding the V tail is working for them lift wise but personally I'd be waiting for the MA tails.

Thanks for reassurance. Yes, A+ 85 mast, no HA experience, A+ 60 fuse on Armie 88l wing Sup.
Most people are ending up it seems with mast well forward of previous gear and I am not. Before MA1000 I had 1550V2 with 232 at 4. I worked up to 2 red shims at 8 with better glide, and then HA with 1 red at 8 with maybe more speed too.
After reading your's and others' experiences started with with MA1000 and 232 no shims at 8, pitch unstable into chop, foot pressure OK. Tried HA195 at 8 and more pitch stable but not enough, then 10 with too much foot pressure.
So, with either stab I am at same position as 1550 V2, unlike others. Maybe I just need practice in easier conditions?

Not to state the obvious but it seems you haven't tried "9".

yeh and the "pitch" stability will take some adjustment if only been on the HS. We all went through that on the HAs.

I was cutting a long story shorter. Started on 9, pitch unstable so try something. 10 better, but felt too much front foot oressure. 8 maybe less pitch stable than 9, especially in gybes. Conditions were tricky, big turbulent chop and too windy for 4m, but I was improving.. I'll start with 9 in kinder conditions.

If there is easily enough wind to pull and easily fly on 6m (flatter sea) with 1550 do you reckon I could build enough speed to get MA1000 up?

patronus said..

eppo said..

patronus said..

eppo said..

patronus said..

eppo said..

WingOut said..

eppo said..

Windoc said..
MA1225: I really can't believe the range and performance of this foil. I put in a reversed .5 shim on the 195 tail because of the pitch instability that was I was getting. I'm realizing that this foil and I'm guessing the other MA sizes need to be even further forward than the HAs I'm used to riding. Frustrating, because I was already maxed forward in the tracks on HAs. Please, manufacturers, longer boxes! The reversed .5 shim transformed the ride for me: much better pitch stability, comfort at speed, great turning (really great!). I could feel more drag and a little reduction in glide but a good compromise. This foil feels super happy in 12knots into 30+. Wow. I could have this as my only foil if I had to The new mast is stellar.

Interesting feedback from a 93kg mate of mine on a 99L FG coming off the 1550 on the A plus mast. Loved every aspect of the 1225 but was having pitch control issues. We tried shimming it (reverse) even putting a mast shim in and pushing it all the way forward in the Fg box. Still no banana.


eventually with the shim plate in, and mast 2cm forward of his normal HS position but with the original 232 it was sweet. Couldn't make it work with the Ha tail.


so bigger guys with bigger boards and lots of undue swing weight - riding on the A plus older mast and the HA tail - there may be some compatability issues with the pitch on these MAs. ? Not an issue with new mast I'd say because I've had zero adjustment needed. In fact I've gone positive on the shim side of things.

maybe the new 235 MA tail will make a difference as well given the older 232 was the key ingredient here.

1000x thx eppo. compatability issues With 85A+ is what I feared (see my post above). I am 96 kg

Well yes it may be the case but I'm only going off one personal experience. And in the end my mate put the 232 on, went forward two places and it was superb. Far better still than being on his 1550.
I can only assume the new 235 (built on the 232 idea) will complete the picture for him.

armie gear can be frustrating with all the changes you can make but also that can be a good thing like in this case.

Hopefully my mates experience can help others who are scrarching their heads a bit.

With MA1000 I found the opposite :-). Very choppy and overpowered on 4m, 88l, 85kg/185lb, A+. First session with 232 was pitch unstable. Second session with HA195-no-shim was better, but not good enough.
I moved mast 8 - 10. At 10 it was most pitch stable but couldn't keep nose down in gybes. Unsure if I should keep at 10, change gybe technique and get used to sailing front foot heavy, or go to 8 and get more gybes in but poor pitch control. Any advice?

I am presuming your are on the A plus mast.
You straight on an A plus 60 fuse?

Any experience on the HA wings ? If not will take a few sessions to adjust. These MAs I feel are closer in feel to the Has than the HS line. Hence they will feel more pitch unstable at first and you may be reaching for more front foot pressure than you need

also you may want to get hold of a shim mast plate.

end of the day my mate ended up 2cm forward, no shim but a mast plate with a 232.


some crew are finding the V tail is working for them lift wise but personally I'd be waiting for the MA tails.

Thanks for reassurance. Yes, A+ 85 mast, no HA experience, A+ 60 fuse on Armie 88l wing Sup.
Most people are ending up it seems with mast well forward of previous gear and I am not. Before MA1000 I had 1550V2 with 232 at 4. I worked up to 2 red shims at 8 with better glide, and then HA with 1 red at 8 with maybe more speed too.
After reading your's and others' experiences started with with MA1000 and 232 no shims at 8, pitch unstable into chop, foot pressure OK. Tried HA195 at 8 and more pitch stable but not enough, then 10 with too much foot pressure.
So, with either stab I am at same position as 1550 V2, unlike others. Maybe I just need practice in easier conditions?

Not to state the obvious but it seems you haven't tried "9".

yeh and the "pitch" stability will take some adjustment if only been on the HS. We all went through that on the HAs.

I was cutting a long story shorter. Started on 9, pitch unstable so try something. 10 better, but felt too much front foot oressure. 8 maybe less pitch stable than 9, especially in gybes. Conditions were tricky, big turbulent chop and too windy for 4m, but I was improving.. I'll start with 9 in kinder conditions.

If there is easily enough wind to pull and easily fly on 6m (flatter sea) with 1550 do you reckon I could build enough speed to get MA1000 up?

Yep eventually. More you use easier it gets as per normal. I think given your ocean conditions at the time it may not be a great starting point to nail down your setup parameters. Asking way too much of yourself there, and the foil.

Vicente said..
New stabilizers launched

If the 205 does for the 800 what the 195 does for the HA range, these should up the fun a good bit.

Plus I think something like the 235 might help those with pitch issues using the A plus mast. Much cheaper alternative than forking out for an entire new mast

marco said..
Finally was able to try the MA1225 - I was blown away from it . Best wing for my use.

Is there a bigger MA coming?Thanks, M

I've heard rumors of two bigger sizes 1400ish and 1600ish and one smaller size 600ish.

my personal guesses/theories is that the 1400 and 1600 will be slightly higher AR around 7.5 for sup downwind. i also want to think that once the whole line of MAs are out they will discontinue the HS. Makes the most business sense to me, the foil line will be quite big otherwise. Who knows though

I recently purchased the new 935 mast and a 1225 foil and 235 tail. I am 90Kg. I am having a lot of trouble with pitch control and I can't get it balanced. When it gets going there is great glide but I feel like a beginner again trying to get going smoothly. I have the mast all the way forward on my SMIK and it is still very back-foot heavy. Any suggestions from those tweaking a setup like this?