Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

The Gong Allvator SUP/Surf foil

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Created by colas > 9 months ago, 5 Sep 2018
Clamsmasha
WA, 74 posts
13 Feb 2019 4:31AM
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Fishdude said..
Angle Of Attack. Look it up. It has to do with the front wings stationary position in relationship to the fusalge and...


That is angle of incidence.

AOA is the angular displacement of the wing's chord line and the flow of the water.

ill be able to give you a comparison between Maliko and Gong in the next week or two....

Filow
79 posts
13 Feb 2019 4:51AM
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Great ! The Gong is really cheaper I just scared to be disapointed compared to the GO FOIL

icharus
55 posts
13 Feb 2019 6:23AM
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Hdip said..
Has anyone gone back and forth from the 70cm to the 80cm to compare the two? I'm prone foiling and want the 80cm but am worried I'll miss the size and maneuverability of my current wing Naish Large, which is comparable to the 70 cm.


I have the naish' large and the 80 - very different beasts the gong is not as smooth - maybe just size - it feels every bubble in the surf where the Nash cuts thru . It's still a lot of fun tho and can carve nicely. It is slower but not excessively so.

colas
3325 posts
13 Feb 2019 2:48PM
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Filow said..
That mean it lift as much as the Go Foil ? Anybody tried the Gong and the Go Foil ?


Just today, there is a new thread on the Gong forum to compare the Gong foil with the other ones. But be warned that the Gong team has always aggressively removed any negative remarks on competitors gear, so this thread may be closed.

Here is one of the first posts by an user: www.gongsup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=10452

For me the real difference is the weight and the price.
Yes the GO foil weighs almost 1 kilogram less and it is noticeable when you carry the gear, but it is 4.5 times more expensive ... and no available spare parts in case of breakage.
I tried the go foil of some friends, it works very well but the Gong one has nothing to be jealous of, far from it.
In short, I love my gong. ;-)

Personally, I just know that the Gong designer own and rode most of the major foils on the market, and he makes sure his foils can stand the comparison before producing them.

Filow
79 posts
13 Feb 2019 3:54PM
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Hey Colas. I ll have a look. Comparing gear is a good thing in my opinion. Your comment about the gong team removing remark about competition is quite surprising IMO.

Anyway I am just wondering what foil to get and I am looking for information here from people whom tried Gong Foil ( Are you working there ? ) and other brand foils.

I ll have a look at the Gong Forum too for sure

colas
3325 posts
13 Feb 2019 6:57PM
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colas said..
Here is one of the first posts by an user:


And he just added:

The two work exactly the same way ... wing pull up and stab pull down on both.
I practiced for 3 months on the gofoil of a friend while waiting for the arrival of my gong and I saw no difference on the water ... strictly none in terms of feeling.

colas
3325 posts
13 Feb 2019 7:03PM
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Filow said..
Your comment about the gong team removing remark about competition is quite surprising IMO.


The Gong shaper considers that there is room in the market for all brands, and criticizing the competition is morally wrong, untrue (it is difficult to be totally objective on surfing gear), and bad business practice.

So you can be negative on the Giong gear in the Gong forum, but posts negative about the competition are quickly removed. Surprizing at first, but makes a lot of sense.

I do not work at Gong, but I am an ambassador. Got in love with their innovative spirit 10 years ago...

Filow
79 posts
13 Feb 2019 7:52PM
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Thanks Colas I'll wait for other feedbacks

AlexF
200 posts
13 Feb 2019 8:36PM
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Does the Allvator withstand the forces of windfoiling, esp. bending the mast?
I'm thinking of using my future Supfoil also for wavewindfoiling, a discipline becoming more and more popular at lightwind wavespots.
Alex

colas
3325 posts
13 Feb 2019 9:27PM
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AlexF said..
Does the Allvator withstand the forces of windfoiling, esp. bending the mast?


I have no idea, and Patrice had hinted at a Allvator wind version 18 months ago but since then, no word on the Wind version. I suggest you mail info@gongsup.com to get an answer.

This said, the mast is similar to all the other SUP/surf alu foil masts on the market, so should have the same strength (or lack of).

Fishdude
56 posts
14 Feb 2019 6:38AM
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icharus said..

I have the naish' large and the 80 - very different beasts the gong is not as smooth - maybe just size - it feels every bubble in the surf where the Nash cuts thru . It's still a lot of fun tho and can carve nicely. It is slower but not excessively so.




Are the mast interchangeable between the Naish and the Gong? I understand they are made at the same factory

colas
3325 posts
14 Feb 2019 2:38PM
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Fishdude said..
Are the mast interchangeable between the Naish and the Gong? I understand they are made at the same factory


You have answers in this thread:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/The-compatibility-thread

Filow
79 posts
17 Feb 2019 1:25AM
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It is really really hard to find comparison of the Gong ALLVATOR Foil compared to other brand. I only see people from Gong responding to the questions, it's embarrassing in my opinion. The Go foil seems cool but expensive.

I am not sure what to do because I'm scared that GONG having so much people answering on forums and the fact that it is quite impossible to hear feedbacks of theirs products from other people than their ambassadors is scary for a customer.

toppleover
QLD, 1523 posts
17 Feb 2019 4:56AM
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Filow said..
It is really really hard to find comparison of the Gong ALLVATOR Foil compared to other brand. I only see people from Gong responding to the questions, it's embarrassing in my opinion. The Go foil seems cool but expensive.

I am not sure what to do because I'm scared that GONG having so much people answering on forums and the fact that it is quite impossible to hear feedbacks of theirs products from other people than their ambassadors is scary for a customer.


There are other foils to choose from, I have a mate that has moved from Gofoil IWA to NeilPryde Glide foil size L & is very happy with his choice.

exiled
239 posts
17 Feb 2019 2:57AM
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There are not a lot of people out who have a ton of experience on multiple foil brands without also being in the industry, plus Gong is marketing to non-English speakers pretty heavily. I wouldn't read too much into it.

I just got my XXL and XL in yesterday. Not enough time for a full review since I have had very little water time on them, but here are some first impressions:

On the wave it feels like a very stable and predictable foil. I wish I had started learning in this foil.

Fit and finish are as Colas described at the beginning of this thread. No complaints, and no need keep a rubber mallet in my car ;) Everything assembles effortlessly.

On a superficial level, Gong's wings look more like Gofoil's than they do any other brand, both use very thick wings. It is clearly it's own design though. No performance comparision implied here, just a visual note.

Not much heavier than my full carbon KeNalu foil.

The Aluminum mast has a pretty sharp leading edge. I would be way more worried about getting hit by the mast than the wing. I guess its the same mast Naish uses, but my KeNalu's edge is much more rounded. The mast also takes in water if you don't plug it with something. Not a huge deal, but I soaked my backseat the first time I did a partial disassemble for loading.

Coordinating international shipping wasn't as easy or cheap as buying on Amazon, but gong (jaime) did a fine job on their end. The Travel case for the XXL is huge, but it has to be to fit the wing, and it's pretty cool that they give you one with the foil. The second wing came with it's own foam cut out, so you can swap it out in the case, but storing both in the case would be difficult without modification.

Hdip
32 posts
17 Feb 2019 5:02AM
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Thanks for that. Please post more impressions as you get more ride time. Your previous foil is a Ke Nalu? I'm interested in how you feel about that one too. Thanks.

exiled
239 posts
17 Feb 2019 7:18AM
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Hdip said..
Thanks for that. Please post more impressions as you get more ride time. Your previous foil is a Ke Nalu? I'm interested in how you feel about that one too. Thanks.


If you are under about 180 lbs or not interested in down winding, the current sale price on the Ke Nalu is hard to beat if you are in the US. They held off on releasing the 970 wing because they felt like there was too much flex in the fuselage with it. Instead they have redesigned the fuselage/wing mount, so a new version will be coming out later in 2019, hence the sale of current stock. I wanted a big wing and didn't want to wait, so I went for the Allvator.

If the two smaller wing sizes are enough, I would get the Ke Nalu, just for the carbon weight savings at the about same price. If you want or need to expand to larger sizes, the Allvator is the way to go.

colas
3325 posts
17 Feb 2019 2:14PM
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Filow said..
It is really really hard to find comparison of the Gong ALLVATOR Foil compared to other brand.


As exiled said, it is more because of the price difference in Europe, where Gong gear is so much cheaper than the other brands than most people buying Gong have not the budget to buy other brands to compare with. And Gong has build a community of customers that trust the brand, so they do not have to do a lot of traditional (magazine ads, sponsoring) marketing. Basically the Gong gear sells itself like hot cakes to the people that already are following the brand, which does not need to actively expand its market when it already struggles to satisfy the local demand.

Also Gong removes any negative reviews for competitor gear in its forum, and refuse aggressively (by legal cease and desist) to appear in tests if the people making the tests are not independent from the industry (selling ads to SUP makers for instance). The shaper earned his "The Bear" nickname because his distaste for the surfing industry practices and refusal to mingle in, for instance magazines will require a brand to buy an ad if they want to appear in tests, and the more expensive the ads, the better the test.

This explains why you will not find a lot of comparison between Gong gear in general and the competition. I am not stating that this is good or bad, but offering an explanation. The ease of shipping foils, plus the current huge price difference may change this a bit for the foil, I guess you will read more people comparing their Gong foil to the others they had than you can find for the boards and paddles. It was also the case for the kite wings, which are also easier to ship, but in a limited way, as the price difference was less.

juandesooka
253 posts
17 Feb 2019 4:09PM
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colas said..



Also Gong removes any negative reviews for competitor gear in its forum, and refuse aggressively (by legal cease and desist) to appear in tests if the people making the tests are not independent from the industry (selling ads to SUP makers for instance). The shaper earned his "The Bear" nickname because his distaste for the surfing industry practices and refusal to mingle in, for instance magazines will require a brand to buy an ad if they want to appear in tests, and the more expensive the ads, the better the test.



I can sure respect that stance. I have given up reading the kite mags, it is basically one big ad from beginning to end: articles, photos, all bought and paid for. It's the worst in the gear reviews, where half the time the reviewers just use the text directly from the manufacturer's websites.

The more I hear about Gong, the more I like they way they are doing business. I am locked in already with my current foil set up, but I am hopeful my friend will order one, so I can check it out and demo it. :-)

Filow
79 posts
17 Feb 2019 6:04PM
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thanks Colas for the feedback ! Do you know the Weight of the Allvator mounted with the XXL Wing ?

exiled
239 posts
18 Feb 2019 10:38AM
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I just got my first session with the XXL wing in. I'm 6'5, 107kg. Conditions were about as miserable as it gets here, 0.8 ft, 12 sec, 14 knots off shore. I was still catching waves a getting up for short rides. It was so nice to be up on a foil gliding and not spending my whole time trying to keep it in the air. It does generate a ton of lift, but at my weight in these small waves I could bully it into submission. I was using a low rocker 7'0 sup board, so I had no trouble keeping the nose weighted enough to prevent unwanted take offs, but I imagine lighter rides on smaller board might have trouble. For me, this was what I wanted a foil for, smooth glides on what would otherwise be awful conditions.

colas
3325 posts
18 Feb 2019 2:16PM
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Filow said..
thanks Colas for the feedback ! Do you know the Weight of the Allvator mounted with the XXL Wing ?


It is listed at 4.8kg on its web page:

gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2Fbox1707%2FProducts%2FGON8SFOILALLSURFCPTXXL

Camarillo
186 posts
5 Mar 2019 2:21PM
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I had my first ride on the gong XXL...
My other foil is the NP Glide Large
My observations chronological:
-Nice travelbag!
-Wing is heavy compared to my NP wing but of course it is bigger
-NP mast is much wider
-Mast and plate mount are much lighter than NP mast and plate mount
-Screws are all M6 hex , all NP screws are M8 Torx
-No rubber pad on the plate like my NP, my JP 7'0 has some rocker curve at the dual boxes , perhaps not a good combination?
-Wing has a very loose fit on the fuselage, I would prefer to have to use
a rubber hammer , what can I do about that?
-Mast of my NP foil is much stiffer
-Out on the water: a lot more mast wobble than my NP, went in to tighten all screws but that didn't make a difference
-Conditions were very bad, small with chop almost as big as the tiny waves, couldn't get flying very easily but I sill have to make a wedge like I did for my NP and the mast wobble didn't make it any easier....

To be continued....

surfcowboy
26 posts
5 Mar 2019 2:47PM
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Interesting about the wing attachment. Do you think that's your wobble or is it mast attachment?

Maybe just the wing has too much mass and torque for the stiffness of the mast?

Thanks and keep the updates coming. Anyone else have this sensation?

Camarillo
186 posts
5 Mar 2019 3:07PM
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surfcowboy said..
Interesting about the wing attachment. Do you think that's your wobble or is it mast attachment?

Maybe just the wing has too much mass and torque for the stiffness of the mast?

Thanks and keep the updates coming. Anyone else have this sensation?


I think most of the wobble comes from flex of the mast.
I am making a wedge for the gong XXL and am thinking of a way to fix the loose fit of the wing.
And I also have a 45 cm mast to try...

colas
3325 posts
5 Mar 2019 3:46PM
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Camarillo said..
-Wing has a very loose fit on the fuselage, I would prefer to have to use
a rubber hammer , what can I do about that?


I guess the wobbles may be due (in part?) by this loose fit.

The best solution is just to make a "hotcoat" of resin on the fuselage peg: just wet it and smooth the resin with a business card. and if it is too much, just sand it after curing. If not enough, add just another layer. Solarez is a faster solution, but you will have to sand it more (hard to make a thin layer with it). Most Gong wings fit perfectly, but they can require some adjustment. Mine was a bit to tight, so I had to sand it... and then re-add some resin because I sanded too much :-)

I have not read about wobbles from other people with the XXL wing, but they may not have had the opportunity to experience stronger masts, so I do not know how a Gong foil with a well fit XXL wing would compare to a NP with a large mast in term of rigidity.

colas
3325 posts
5 Mar 2019 3:48PM
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Camarillo said..
my JP 7'0 has some rocker curve at the dual boxes , perhaps not a good combination?


This can be potentially quite dangerous, if the plate (of any brand) is rocking on the boxes, tightening the bold will try to bend the plate and make it more likely to break.

sweats
54 posts
5 Mar 2019 4:28PM
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I got an XXL wing to fit on my Gong Allvator foil and have been really impressed. Had a long session on the combo last week and did not notice any mast flex. The XXL had great lift and was still able to carve although not as easily as my L wing. The XXL did not feel overpowered even on near head high rolling waves. There was a little play between the fuselage and the wing that I noticed on assembly which disappeared on tightening the 2 m6 screws. I put a strip of electrical tape on 2 sides of the fuselage that the wing locates onto and it is now a very snug fit that needs a light tap with a mallet to get on and off. I cannot detect ant play when riding. I really rate the Allvator.

Camarillo
186 posts
5 Mar 2019 5:16PM
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sweats said..
I got an XXL wing to fit on my Gong Allvator foil and have been really impressed. Had a long session on the combo last week and did not notice any mast flex. The XXL had great lift and was still able to carve although not as easily as my L wing. The XXL did not feel overpowered even on near head high rolling waves. There was a little play between the fuselage and the wing that I noticed on assembly which disappeared on tightening the 2 m6 screws. I put a strip of electrical tape on 2 sides of the fuselage that the wing locates onto and it is now a very snug fit that needs a light tap with a mallet to get on and off. I cannot detect ant play when riding. I really rate the Allvator.


What other Foils do you have? Perhaps the NP is uberstiff...

I am thinking of using aluminium tape between the fuselage and the wing.

sweats
54 posts
5 Mar 2019 5:48PM
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I am budget foiling. I have a Chinese copy of a Takuma which I started foiling on before moving to the Allvator. I Iike the look of the NP foil but don't think the Gong foil is holding my progression back. I also have the 45cm mast which I have been using a lot in shallow water. A really useful add on. I am also thinking of getting one of the Gong kite foil stabs to try on my L and XXL rigs. Great to be able to mix and match the parts from Gong!



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"The Gong Allvator SUP/Surf foil" started by colas