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Is the LT the best thing that ever happened to windsurfing? Or has it ruined it?

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Created by Belly25 A week ago, 22 Nov 2019
AUS 814
NSW, 339 posts
26 Nov 2019 8:51AM
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cammd said..

MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.



Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.


Chris249
285 posts
26 Nov 2019 6:42AM
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gorgesailor said..

MatStirl said..


RichardG said..
I think as the grass roots of the sport grows (eg.LT) then the opportunities at the top end of the sport grow too eg PWA etc. LT is the vehicle for the weekend racer and its fun and like all high performance sailing requires skill and fitness. To illustrate this point, for example, I understand that the prize money in SUP pro events is much greater than for windsurfing as there is a big grass roots. Longboard surfing re-emergence since the 90s revitalised surfing and many older and also younger riders took up the sport and the cool stoke of the log. I think the LT can do the same to grow the grass roots.




I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

Foiling will mainly appeal to the already converted. There's got to be some easy cheap means of getting some fresh faces into the sport otherwise it will only shrink further over time.

The popularity of LT's will ultimately benefit foiling...or whatever path the top end of the sport takes in the future.



What's a club?


A "club" is where people get together to have fun doing something. Apparently they are not very popular in the USA. Must be an Aussie, kiwi, Brit, German, Italian, Canadian etc thing

windsufering
VIC, 891 posts
26 Nov 2019 9:56AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..

MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.



Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.

Thanks for sending the one bic techno down to Melbourne !

gorgesailor
220 posts
26 Nov 2019 7:47AM
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Chris249 said..

gorgesailor said..


MatStirl said..



RichardG said..
I think as the grass roots of the sport grows (eg.LT) then the opportunities at the top end of the sport grow too eg PWA etc. LT is the vehicle for the weekend racer and its fun and like all high performance sailing requires skill and fitness. To illustrate this point, for example, I understand that the prize money in SUP pro events is much greater than for windsurfing as there is a big grass roots. Longboard surfing re-emergence since the 90s revitalised surfing and many older and also younger riders took up the sport and the cool stoke of the log. I think the LT can do the same to grow the grass roots.





I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

Foiling will mainly appeal to the already converted. There's got to be some easy cheap means of getting some fresh faces into the sport otherwise it will only shrink further over time.

The popularity of LT's will ultimately benefit foiling...or whatever path the top end of the sport takes in the future.




What's a club?



A "club" is where people get together to have fun doing something. Apparently they are not very popular in the USA. Must be an Aussie, kiwi, Brit, German, Italian, Canadian etc thing


True

gorgesailor
220 posts
26 Nov 2019 8:02AM
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gorgesailor said..

Chris249 said..


gorgesailor said..



MatStirl said..




RichardG said..
I think as the grass roots of the sport grows (eg.LT) then the opportunities at the top end of the sport grow too eg PWA etc. LT is the vehicle for the weekend racer and its fun and like all high performance sailing requires skill and fitness. To illustrate this point, for example, I understand that the prize money in SUP pro events is much greater than for windsurfing as there is a big grass roots. Longboard surfing re-emergence since the 90s revitalised surfing and many older and also younger riders took up the sport and the cool stoke of the log. I think the LT can do the same to grow the grass roots.






I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

Foiling will mainly appeal to the already converted. There's got to be some easy cheap means of getting some fresh faces into the sport otherwise it will only shrink further over time.

The popularity of LT's will ultimately benefit foiling...or whatever path the top end of the sport takes in the future.





What's a club?




A "club" is where people get together to have fun doing something. Apparently they are not very popular in the USA. Must be an Aussie, kiwi, Brit, German, Italian, Canadian etc thing



True


....ok being a bit facetious I admit ... But you are right clubs have very little influence on windsurfing here in the US. They really never have done much for the entry level as a whole & pretty much only functioned to help organize regattas in a few areas The few Yacht clubs that support Windsurf racing are focused on Foil & Slalom - especially on the West coast. The US Nationals is Foil, Slalom, & Formula. On the East coast there is a bit more lightwind action so you have Techno, Kona, Foil, & some open Raceboard & Formula racing. There is also an RSX regatta going on but this is part of the international event & will be 95% + foreign visitors.

Personally I hope the LT takes off. But it has a very long way to go here. Thinking about it, not sure why the Kona didn't do better? It is also a really fun & versatile board & the rig is a pretty decent value - though a bit more expensive than the LT(not much though...) I actually had higher hopes for the LT with it's open brand format & dead simple rig & board that it would be much cheaper.

cammd
QLD, 2490 posts
26 Nov 2019 10:15AM
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windsufering said..



cammd said..




MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.






Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.




Thanks for sending the one bic techno down to Melbourne !




No problems, that means you owe us a wally in return I guess, when can we expect it.

windsufering
VIC, 891 posts
26 Nov 2019 11:34AM
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cammd said..

windsufering said..




cammd said..





MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.







Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.





Thanks for sending the one bic techno down to Melbourne !





No problems, that means you owe us a wally in return I guess, when can we expect it.


Ask South Aust

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
27 Nov 2019 9:21AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..

MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.



Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.


Ha Cammd start up a techno thread no need to bring that in here.... This is about the LT.

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
27 Nov 2019 10:31AM
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Thanks a million to Matt Holder from Reflex Films for shooting last Sunday's racing action at MBSC (all images below are credited to Reflex Films). 20 competitors started in the first race of the three club race mini invitational series all held on Sunday 24 November 2019. The ballistic winds of up to 27.5 knots decimated the fleet but there was some great racing action.

See report at: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Western-Australia/Windsurfer-LT-Racing-at-Mounts-Bay-Sailing-Club--Home-of-the-2020-21-World-Championship-#2431995

and at: mailchi.mp/f43edf8522c9/5emnvuqmzf-12074077?e=20ed377539&utm_source=seabreeze.com.au








































Thanks a million to Matt Holder from Reflex Films for shooting last Sunday's racing action at MBSC (all images above are credited to Reflex Films). Stay tuned for more media on this exciting class one design racing.

windsufering
VIC, 891 posts
27 Nov 2019 1:51PM
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AUS 814
NSW, 339 posts
27 Nov 2019 3:09PM
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windsufering said..




Thats amazing

windsufering
VIC, 891 posts
27 Nov 2019 4:02PM
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Yes we have a very slick team at PYC that make things happen !
also we teach kids to windsurf on wallys

cammd
QLD, 2490 posts
27 Nov 2019 3:04PM
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Nice pictures Richard, it looks like a sliding mast track would set the board free downwind if the mast could be slid back in powered conditions, do you change the position between strong and light winds or is it just one setting does all.

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
27 Nov 2019 1:21PM
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cammd said..
Nice pictures Richard, it looks like a sliding mast track would set the board free downwind if the mast could be slid back in powered conditions, do you change the position between strong and light winds or is it just one setting does all.






I have been using it in one position about just ahead of centre but Sunday I moved it back which was a big mistake. I am going to move it much further forward which is what I did last season. Just talking with Tim Gourlay (former RSX sailor, Mistral One Design sailor, also foiler, wave sailor and current LT Lightweight World Champ) on Sunday after the race, as I understand it he has it very far forward as do many others I spoke with. Tim says on the Mistral IMCO with the "slider on the fly track" you go all the way up front for upwind and light winds and all the way back on the mast track reaching and off the wind. However if racing on the LT (since there is no slider on the fly ) most it seems (unless I am mistaken) typically find a position which is the sweet spot, hence the forward position past centre and much closer to the front on the LT seems best to me and I will be using that more often and experimenting. You want to go fast upwind so you can be ahead at the first mark. Downwind pump and adjust trim by standing ever so slightly aft of the equilibrium point (that is to be determined) to free up the board if possible (and prevent nose diving) is the theory I am going with (my own) but not standing too far back since that will stall and slow the board. There should be an optimal trim for downwind sailing. I am still learning how to make the board go fast and there are others who are much faster than me.

Chris 249
NSW, 1994 posts
27 Nov 2019 4:49PM
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Most people put it just forward of the centre of the track. Tim, being light, may have his further forward than that but in the Medium Lights all the front of the fleet put it about 10mm in front of the centre, if I recall correctly.In really heavy air you can move it further forward but I have yet to race an LT in that stuff.

The board would be faster with a track but a Laser would be faster with a trapeze, a single speed bike would be faster with gears, a Raceboard would be faster if it was a foiling kite, etc etc etc. I'm fairly sure that the lack of a track keeps the fleet closer together because lighter and better sailors get less of an advantage.

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
27 Nov 2019 1:53PM
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Chris 249 said..
Most people put it just forward of the centre of the track. Tim, being light, may have his further forward than that but in the Medium Lights all the front of the fleet put it about 10mm in front of the centre, if I recall correctly.In really heavy air you can move it further forward but I have yet to race an LT in that stuff.

The board would be faster with a track but a Laser would be faster with a trapeze, a single speed bike would be faster with gears, a Raceboard would be faster if it was a foiling kite, etc etc etc. I'm fairly sure that the lack of a track keeps the fleet closer together because lighter and better sailors get less of an advantage.

Thanks Chris. Excellent guidance and the LT should retain simplicity , there is no need for sliding mast tracks on it. The Laser started out popular for its simplicity.

Jethrow
NSW, 785 posts
27 Nov 2019 7:42PM
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Hey Richard, are those the waters the Worlds will be sailed on?

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Thursday , 28 Nov 2019 5:01PM
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Jethrow said..
Hey Richard, are those the waters the Worlds will be sailed on?



Racing areas for Mounts Bay Sailing Club include Matilda Bay, Melville Water East and Melville Water West on the Swan River. The photographs as shown above are for waters adjacent to Matilda Bay and Perth Water on the Swan River. The same Swan River will be used for the actual LT world championships but the event will likely be west of that area shown above over to the body of water of the Swan River as used for the 1984 Windsurfer worlds in Melville Water. Melville Water is also being used for the 2019 Moth Worlds taking place in December 2019. There will likely be more information in the Notice of Race and the area contemplated is better for sailing.

NotWal
QLD, 7129 posts
Thursday , 28 Nov 2019 9:06PM
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They all look like they need more downhaul going by the wrinkly luffs. Is that a feature of those sails?

MatStirl
QLD, 60 posts
Thursday , 28 Nov 2019 9:07PM
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Select to expand quote
cammd said..

MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.



Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.


I like the Techno but how many in Australia?
Also cammed, heavy 7.8m2 don't make good beginner sails.

Unfortunately Australians haven't supported the one design windsurfers the Europeans and even kiwis have. We all seem preoccupied with the formula and now foil arms race. But if that's your gig that's fine.

lotofwind
NSW, 5410 posts
Thursday , 28 Nov 2019 10:23PM
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I think its time to have a separate LT section, like the foiling section

Chris 249
NSW, 1994 posts
Thursday , 28 Nov 2019 11:19PM
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NotWal said..
They all look like they need more downhaul going by the wrinkly luffs. Is that a feature of those sails?



It's an extremely sensible and logical feature of many sails that are designed for a wide wind range. It's a great way to move the draft around from a powerful and high-pointing draft-aft shape for light winds to a draft-forward profile for strong winds.That's why you see luff wrinkles in light airs in everything from gold medal winning Lasers to the carbon $750k mainsail on Wild Oats.

On the LT the downhaul is critical.Pull the downhaul on to get rid of the wrinkles and the compression bends the sail, flattening it too much. The leach opens, do you don't point, and the draft moves forward too far.Otherboards get away without it because of narrow apparent wind ranges and pumping mean that they need a less adjustable shape.

Here's an example of a powerful setup with a rig that goes from zero to 25+ - a certain Mr John Bertrand from Australia II. Lots of speed, lots of luff wrinkles because they allow you to create and move around an effective shape, and there's no appreciable drag or downside.

lotofwind
NSW, 5410 posts
Thursday , 29 Nov 2019 12:05AM
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^^^^you sailors are very close and friendly towards each other going by that pic

Imax1
VIC, 2332 posts
Friday , 29 Nov 2019 6:34AM
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lotofwind said..
^^^^you sailors are very close and friendly towards each other going by that pic


^^^
what happened is ... the middle guy got yelled at for not applying enough downhaul . Then he started to cry . Then the others had to console him or he would have grabbed his bat and ball and gone home

Chris 249
NSW, 1994 posts
Friday , 29 Nov 2019 6:53AM
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It's a blokey hug after winning a world title heat, amongst a bunch of guys who are secure in their masculinity and don't need to behave like 10 year olds.

cammd
QLD, 2490 posts
Friday , 29 Nov 2019 7:30AM
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Select to expand quote
MatStirl said..



cammd said..




MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.






Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.





I like the Techno but how many in Australia?
Also cammed, heavy 7.8m2 don't make good beginner sails.

Unfortunately Australians haven't supported the one design windsurfers the Europeans and even kiwis have. We all seem preoccupied with the formula and now foil arms race. But if that's your gig that's fine.




Its not often beginners start on a 7.8m cammed race sail that I have seen. Check out the little ripper program happening in NSW and you will see smaller sails can be used to teach and start kids

The fact is to say windsurfing has had no popular beginner scene is incorrect. Techno293 is massive globally and has been steadily growing in Australia after concerted efforts by a number of dedicated volunteers with the support of Sailing Clubs and AS. A lot of effort by a lot of people over many years can not just be wiped away because someone on a forum doesn't actually know whats been happening around the country in the beginner/youth scene.

The question is, is the LT the best thing that has happened to windsurfing, my answer would be no, the best thing in the last 10 to 15 years has been the techno class, its been supplying a steady stream of new blood into the sport for all that time. The LT has so far been very successful at bringing back people to the sport and full respect to that but its no where near the size and spread of Techno293

windsufering
VIC, 891 posts
Friday , 29 Nov 2019 9:13AM
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AUS 814
NSW, 339 posts
Friday , 29 Nov 2019 9:25AM
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windsufering said..




Wow that's amazing

MatStirl
QLD, 60 posts
Friday , 29 Nov 2019 9:33AM
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Select to expand quote
cammd said..

MatStirl said..




cammd said..





MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.







Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.






I like the Techno but how many in Australia?
Also cammed, heavy 7.8m2 don't make good beginner sails.

Unfortunately Australians haven't supported the one design windsurfers the Europeans and even kiwis have. We all seem preoccupied with the formula and now foil arms race. But if that's your gig that's fine.





Its not often beginners start on a 7.8m cammed race sail that I have seen. Check out the little ripper program happening in NSW and you will see smaller sails can be used to teach and start kids

The fact is to say windsurfing has had no popular beginner scene is incorrect. Techno293 is massive globally and has been steadily growing in Australia after concerted efforts by a number of dedicated volunteers with the support of Sailing Clubs and AS. A lot of effort by a lot of people over many years can not just be wiped away because someone on a forum doesn't actually know whats been happening around the country in the beginner/youth scene.

The question is, is the LT the best thing that has happened to windsurfing, my answer would be no, the best thing in the last 10 to 15 years has been the techno class, its been supplying a steady stream of new blood into the sport for all that time. The LT has so far been very successful at bringing back people to the sport and full respect to that but its no where near the size and spread of Techno293


While I like the Techno and am thinking about getting one until it gets the racing fleets the LT is getting the LT wins the prize - at least in Australia.

Great pics of the LT racing.

AUS 814
NSW, 339 posts
Friday , 29 Nov 2019 12:47PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
MatStirl said..

cammd said..


MatStirl said..





cammd said..






MatStirl said..


I reckon that's spot in.
Windsurfing has had no beginner scene/popular one design board for 25 years.

.








Are you serious, never heard of techno293 I assume. Over 440 youth at the worlds in Spain just last month

Its great you guys love your wallies but try and keep it real.







I like the Techno but how many in Australia?
Also cammed, heavy 7.8m2 don't make good beginner sails.

Unfortunately Australians haven't supported the one design windsurfers the Europeans and even kiwis have. We all seem preoccupied with the formula and now foil arms race. But if that's your gig that's fine.






Its not often beginners start on a 7.8m cammed race sail that I have seen. Check out the little ripper program happening in NSW and you will see smaller sails can be used to teach and start kids

The fact is to say windsurfing has had no popular beginner scene is incorrect. Techno293 is massive globally and has been steadily growing in Australia after concerted efforts by a number of dedicated volunteers with the support of Sailing Clubs and AS. A lot of effort by a lot of people over many years can not just be wiped away because someone on a forum doesn't actually know whats been happening around the country in the beginner/youth scene.

The question is, is the LT the best thing that has happened to windsurfing, my answer would be no, the best thing in the last 10 to 15 years has been the techno class, its been supplying a steady stream of new blood into the sport for all that time. The LT has so far been very successful at bringing back people to the sport and full respect to that but its no where near the size and spread of Techno293



While I like the Techno and am thinking about getting one until it gets the racing fleets the LT is getting the LT wins the prize - at least in Australia.

Great pics of the LT racing.


That last pic looks mega exciting



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"Is the LT the best thing that ever happened to windsurfing? Or has it ruined it?" started by Belly25