Chris249 said..

Simple rule - don't ask a question if you don't want answers!

So true

Chris249 said..

azuli said..

Chris249 said..

I never said the class was obsolete. The point is that in any development class a particular design can become obsolete for racing at national level. My 1982-3 Raceboards and my IMCO are all obsolete for that, and so is my Equipe 2 rig.

Thanks for clarifying your point. However raceboard class isn't really a development class like it was in the old PBA days.
While the '82-3 vintage designs might be getting on a bit, the IMCO and Equipe's are still competitive in the right hands.
Send them up here if you don't want to use them

It's universally agreed among all I've spoken to that the imco is no longer truly competitive; too small
especially given the shift to 9.5 sails. My Equipe's issue is the rig, as I said. The board has structural issues and isn't worth selling as I may still race it one day.

I have seen the old boards do very well against the new, I got beaten twice on the weekend on my 2016 Phantom by a young lad who I sold a 1990 speed F1 using a techno rig, he has just started on Raceboards this year and every week he gets faster on a board that cost him a lot less than $500.

I saw the 2019 RB Nationals won with an old RSX rig, I am sure most would agree that is not "truly competitive" either.

The top NZ sailor in the 2016 worlds was on a Lighting 380, a 20 year old board.

So maybe for the top 5 competitiors in a regatta the old boards are not "truly competitive' but then every one outside of that top 5 are not "truly competitive" either are they.

Some of the boards in the RB fleet are over 30 years old and hold there own, the class rules ensure they do not become obsolete.

RichardG said..

cammd said..

Chris249 said..

azuli said..

Chris249 said..

I never said the class was obsolete. The point is that in any development class a particular design can become obsolete for racing at national level. My 1982-3 Raceboards and my IMCO are all obsolete for that, and so is my Equipe 2 rig.

Thanks for clarifying your point. However raceboard class isn't really a development class like it was in the old PBA days.
While the '82-3 vintage designs might be getting on a bit, the IMCO and Equipe's are still competitive in the right hands.
Send them up here if you don't want to use them

It's universally agreed among all I've spoken to that the imco is no longer truly competitive; too small
especially given the shift to 9.5 sails. My Equipe's issue is the rig, as I said. The board has structural issues and isn't worth selling as I may still race it one day.

I have seen the old boards do very well against the new, I got beaten twice on the weekend on my 2016 Phantom by a young lad who I sold a 1990 speed F1 using a techno rig, he has just started on Raceboards this year and every week he gets faster on a board that cost him a lot less than $500.

I saw the 2019 RB Nationals won with an old RSX rig, I am sure most would agree that is not "truly competitive" either.

The top NZ sailor in the 2016 worlds was on a Lighting 380, a 20 year old board.

So maybe for the top 5 competitiors in a regatta the old boards are not "truly competitive' but then every one outside of that top 5 are not "truly competitive" either are they.

Some of the boards in the RB fleet are over 30 years old and hold there own, the class rules ensure they do not become obsolete.

Was the F2 at the 2016 worlds an F2380 Race ? That is a very modern longboard of about 290 litres, as introduced in the late 90s.

Maybe the correct statement is the Speeds/IMCOs and Mistral Equipes are competitive if sailed by a light sailor 65-75 kg.

At the end of the day a sailor is more important than the board.

Yes it was an F2 380 race a very modern 20 year old board which demostrates perfectly how gear does not become obsolete in the class.

I think the incorrect statement was current Raceboard designs could be obsolete next year, the class rules are tight enough to make sure that does not happen.

Absolutely correct a sailor is more important than the gear. I think the majority of upgrades of gear in the class is due to gear wearing out through heavy use, not because of the latest design for this season.

The Windsurfer class nationals are being held in Adelaide this year , entries are open and the fleet is growing .
Does the formula ,raceboard, techno and foil national titles move from NSW / QLD ?

As the answer to this forum topic , I would have to say yes !
With Active fleets in every state which no other class have and national titles events moving around Aust it's easy to answer !

its always good to ask a Question when you know the Answer !

windsufering said..
As the answer to this forum topic , I would have to say yes !
With Active fleets in every state which no other class have and national titles events moving around Aust it's easy to answer !

its always good to ask a Question when you know the Answer !

Your so clever setting that little trap

Based on your logic can I ask how many continents LT are active on and how many countries are LT's active in, do they have a fleet in Poland or Israel for example.

I suspect you know that as well but will avoid a straight answer

azuli said..

windsufering said..
As the answer to this forum topic , I would have to say yes !
With Active fleets in every state which no other class have and national titles events moving around Aust it's easy to answer !

its always good to ask a Question when you know the Answer !

Thanks for providing the answer to this vexing question

Just wondering what defines an active fleet ?

State titles would be a start

cammd said..

Chris249 said..

azuli said..

Chris249 said..

I never said the class was obsolete. The point is that in any development class a particular design can become obsolete for racing at national level. My 1982-3 Raceboards and my IMCO are all obsolete for that, and so is my Equipe 2 rig.

Thanks for clarifying your point. However raceboard class isn't really a development class like it was in the old PBA days.
While the '82-3 vintage designs might be getting on a bit, the IMCO and Equipe's are still competitive in the right hands.
Send them up here if you don't want to use them

It's universally agreed among all I've spoken to that the imco is no longer truly competitive; too small
especially given the shift to 9.5 sails. My Equipe's issue is the rig, as I said. The board has structural issues and isn't worth selling as I may still race it one day.

I have seen the old boards do very well against the new, I got beaten twice on the weekend on my 2016 Phantom by a young lad who I sold a 1990 speed F1 using a techno rig, he has just started on Raceboards this year and every week he gets faster on a board that cost him a lot less than $500.

I saw the 2019 RB Nationals won with an old RSX rig, I am sure most would agree that is not "truly competitive" either.

The top NZ sailor in the 2016 worlds was on a Lighting 380, a 20 year old board.

So maybe for the top 5 competitiors in a regatta the old boards are not "truly competitive' but then every one outside of that top 5 are not "truly competitive" either are they.

Some of the boards in the RB fleet are over 30 years old and hold there own, the class rules ensure they do not become obsolete.

As you say, the old boards are not competitive for the top 5 nationally. If I do a serious nationals in any class I expect top 5, so
for my aims they are not competitive and are therefore obsolete for me.

cammd said..

RichardG said..

cammd said..

Chris249 said..

azuli said..

Chris249 said..

I never said the class was obsolete. The point is that in any development class a particular design can become obsolete for racing at national level. My 1982-3 Raceboards and my IMCO are all obsolete for that, and so is my Equipe 2 rig.

Thanks for clarifying your point. However raceboard class isn't really a development class like it was in the old PBA days.
While the '82-3 vintage designs might be getting on a bit, the IMCO and Equipe's are still competitive in the right hands.
Send them up here if you don't want to use them

It's universally agreed among all I've spoken to that the imco is no longer truly competitive; too small
especially given the shift to 9.5 sails. My Equipe's issue is the rig, as I said. The board has structural issues and isn't worth selling as I may still race it one day.

I have seen the old boards do very well against the new, I got beaten twice on the weekend on my 2016 Phantom by a young lad who I sold a 1990 speed F1 using a techno rig, he has just started on Raceboards this year and every week he gets faster on a board that cost him a lot less than $500.

I saw the 2019 RB Nationals won with an old RSX rig, I am sure most would agree that is not "truly competitive" either.

The top NZ sailor in the 2016 worlds was on a Lighting 380, a 20 year old board.

So maybe for the top 5 competitiors in a regatta the old boards are not "truly competitive' but then every one outside of that top 5 are not "truly competitive" either are they.

Some of the boards in the RB fleet are over 30 years old and hold there own, the class rules ensure they do not become obsolete.

Was the F2 at the 2016 worlds an F2380 Race ? That is a very modern longboard of about 290 litres, as introduced in the late 90s.

Maybe the correct statement is the Speeds/IMCOs and Mistral Equipes are competitive if sailed by a light sailor 65-75 kg.

At the end of the day a sailor is more important than the board.

Yes it was an F2 380 race a very modern 20 year old board which demostrates perfectly how gear does not become obsolete in the class.

I think the incorrect statement was current Raceboard designs could be obsolete next year, the class rules are tight enough to make sure that does not happen.

Absolutely correct a sailor is more important than the gear. I think the majority of upgrades of gear in the class is due to gear wearing out through heavy use, not because of the latest design for this season.

There have been many classes that stated that the rules were too tight to allow obsolescence. Many of them got it wrong. The development class I'm racing next weekend was one of them.

Chris249 said..

cammd said..

windsufering said..
As the answer to this forum topic , I would have to say yes !
With Active fleets in every state which no other class have and national titles events moving around Aust it's easy to answer !

its always good to ask a Question when you know the Answer !

Your so clever setting that little trap

Based on your logic can I ask how many continents LT are active on and how many countries are LT's active in, do they have a fleet in Poland or Israel for example.

I suspect you know that as well but will avoid a straight answer

Asia (Japan). Oceania (oz) Europe (France, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Malta, etc) USA have active fleets.

South Africa is trying to kick off LT racing, as are NZ and the UK.

The Raceboard class may be spread more widely in Europe and has a South American presence. It's fantastic if both these great classes do well

Yes but windsufering was trying to prove the LT was the best thing to happen to windsurfing by belittling classes that do not enjoy the same fleet sizes or spread........ in Australia.

Unfortunately he forgot about the rest of the world.

azuli said..

RichardG said..
Just referring to the Rottnest Race I described above. My post was based on recollections of others. Colin Leonhardt 1980s top WA windsurfer tells me my account was inaccurate so I am posting his below.

"The controversial 88 reruns: Nov. 19/20 1988 - The 88 Race was from Leighton (the groyne end) to Rotto and back but no upwind or cutoff time. I'm pretty sure there was light wind on Saturday so they ran slalom which I won with Eric Hauge 2nd and a photo ran in the Sunday Times the following day. On Sunday we waited around for ages with it hot and easterly then a seabreeze came in quite late. There was a mad panic and the race was started very soon afterwards. Problem was the ch9 helicopter hovered just upwind of the start so everyone got no wind except Jay Wild and Anders who were pushed off the beach by the downdraft. By the time I got planing they were so far ahead. I got to Rottnest then noticed the rounding mark wasnt where it was supposed to be, it was actually north of Rottnest so I round the mark with Trevor Wright about 50m behind me. Once I got about 100m off Leighton the wind started to get fluky but I made it to the beach with Trevor 2nd and unknown 3rd. That's when the wind went easterly and died. I was doing interviews with all the media when Quenton came up to me and said the race was cancelled and he took my $2,000 winnings back! That's when Stuart Bell who sponsored me started going off at Quentin. I got in my car and drove back to Dunsborough and could see flares going off everywhere! Resceduled to Dec 3rd.

On Dec 2nd the day before the race while I was driving from Dunsborough to Perth I had a head on crash at 110km/h. Quentin was unsure about letting me compete but let me anyway. It was windy (25kn) and I only got about 1km out when I started feeling unwell so turned around and made it back to the beach where I passed out. Lach Simpson won, Anders didnt compete. Lach Simpson runs YOB sup so you can contact him if you want to clarify.

The picture you posted of Trevor le Dain was the 89/90 race where you had to tack upwind and the first 30 around the top mark were allowed to go onto Rottnest. I made my own lightweight board that year (full carbon 4.5kg) and got to the first mark in 3rd but the board snapped about 2km out and cant remember who won.

But back in 85/86 they had the first rottnest race on longboards, we actually stopped at Rottnest for snacks then restarted the race with the combined results declaring the winner. The leg over was only about 8kn w/sw so it was one long tack with daggerboard down, Knut Benson from Sweden won with me in 9th? The wind had picked up coming back so I got 3rd on my Tiga Pro but unsure who won. "

A longboard race to Rotto might be a good idea one day. An LT class race ?

Interesting story. I remember meeting ColinL, DaveS and the WA crew whilst competing in the Rip Curl Wave Classic in Torquay in the mid 80s. Good Times Am glad that car accident did not turn out worse.

While shortboard/slalom boards have proved fast in these events when the conditions suit them, I think raceboard designs are best suited for long distance sailing, especially when the weather could change or there are no support boats.

Probably why Jono Dunnett chose a raceboard for his round UK and Round Europe journeys (europe.onebubble.earth) and Arnaud de Rosnay, and others used Pan Am style raceboards for their journeys in the '80s.

Agreed Azuli. Raceboards are great. So cool that we can now compete in raceboard events nationally and globally if we are in a position to do so. LT similar and perhaps even more accessible. Yes longboards are exciting and the Pan Am Cup style racing was meant for the ocean.

And RSX

RichardG said..
Will the LT be at Sail Melbourne ?

What no LT at Sail Melbourne???, would have thought it would have been a shoe in

azuli said..
Apparently the 2021 World Masters Games will include Windsurfer LT, Glide, and Techno293 windsurfing classes.

What no iFoil ? I would have thought it would be a shoe in, especially with the relative less demands on the sailor, ease and efficiency of foiling would suit the Worlds Masters Games and the high cost would suit older sailors with deep pockets.

RichardG said..
iFoil ?

Next year would be interesting
ifoil v kite foil probably share the same course too