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Is the LT the best thing that ever happened to windsurfing? Or has it ruined it?

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Created by Belly25 A week ago, 22 Nov 2019
RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 12:16PM
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AUS 814 said..
I never mentioned racing



My proposition was a "..kitefoiler is much faster than many windsurfers including the boards that you sail. Does that make those windsurfers slow ?" Your answer did not provide the required response to what the question called up. You did however agree that all speed is relative so the LT is relatively fast enough to race compared to a Laser one of the world's most popular racing dinghy classes. I do concede it is relatively slower than a raceboard or a racing foil board around a course.

AUS 814
NSW, 339 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 3:38PM
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Ok lets call it a draw

azuli
QLD, 203 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 2:57PM
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AUS 814 said..


Thats right , speed is so relative


I think racing LT's would be faster, cheaper and more fun than racing these...relatively speaking



lotofwind
NSW, 5410 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 4:20PM
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^^^^The future of windsurfing has arrived. Will be in the Olympics soon

Chris249
285 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 2:19PM
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azuli said..

Chris249 said..


azuli said..



Chris 249 said..
Song, it's very personal. I sailed IMCO for years (including being twice 2nd in the nationals after they were out of the Olympics) and was into Raceboards well before they had their very first world title (in which I was part of the national team), so I know and love them. They were amazing fun when they were used as they were intended, which is for a mainly reaching course with a 12-15 knot wind limit on open water.

A few thoughts;

1- the RB's mast and CB position, big fin and low foot mean that it tacks much more slowly. You cannot work the small shifts like you can in an LT, and to be honest I always found tacking a RB to be painfully slow and frustrating. Many of us love working those small shifts by zipping the LT around through tacks even if we go slower than a RB. Others prefer speed and that's great.

2- The fact that the LT is twitchier in stronger winds is lots of fun for many of us. It's a bit like driving a fast manual car instead of a fast automatic car, or perhaps like skiing moguls rather than a perfectly groomed and flat ski slope. We love the fact that you have to respond to each wind gust and each wave. Personally I love it when windsurfing becomes a boathandling challenge, and in the LT that happens in lighter winds than it does in a RB. A RB in 20 knots is a test of speed because the board handles so well, an LT in 20 knots is a test of speed and handling. Some people dislike that and it's fine.

3- The rig's power moves around, but the other side is that the rig is very light - the sail is just 2kg. Some of us don't like heavy rigs, especially in something we often sail in light breezes and especially when they spend so much time raked that you are often effectively stopping them from falling backwards. The LT's upright rig almost balances itself in light winds.

4- Yep, with footstraps you can lock yourself in and that's nice, but in the straps with the track back you tend to sail a narrower range of downwind angles and styles. The LT has a wider range of fast wind angles; depending on the gusts, the strength, the waves and the tactical situation you may be gybing through high angles like a RB, or you could be going deeper, surfing the little waves in a wave the RB cannot do. On the LT you are dancing up and down, like walking the plank on a long surfboard. You have the fascinating challenge of staying stuck on by using balance and feel rather than just sticking your feet in straps. Some of us really love that, although we also love the fantastic feeling of a RB howling with the track back.

5- Oddly enough, in really strong winds the LT now seems to be handling better than the RBs with their 9.5s!

6- We don't pump upwind, which is a lot more fun to some of us. We have more varied events - course racing, marathon, slalom and freestyle. And there are more LT fleets around.

7- LT is $2700, RB is about $12000?. One is going to stay the same, the other could be obsolete next year.

8- "Technical" yes, but that seems to mean that there's a bigger gap between fast and slow sailors in speed. Many slower sailors get a bit discouraged by the gap. The LT fleet is closer together and because they tack fast and we don't pump upwind, slower sailors can do especially well in light winds.

9- The LT doesn't carve quite as well as a RB but you can still throw one-handed duck gybes on them. The LT is much more fun for me in light wind gybes, mark roundings etc because it turns faster.

10- I still have an IMCO, 2 old custom Naish RBs including a proto of the original pre-concave Pan Am, and an Equipe II. I haven't sailed them for ages but must get them out one day. They are great boards for charging along in a straight line if it's breezy. That's what the class was designed for. Personally I find them frustrating when used for windward/leeward flat water racing in light winds. If you love them, that's great!

PS - the guy who got 2nd in my class at the Australian nationals was top 10 in the world in the Olympic IMCO rankings, and 2nd in the youth worlds on an IMCO. The junior world IMCO champ and masters RB world champ were in my div at the LT worlds, with IMCO Olympians in other divisions. Our former national IMCO champ is a top LT sailor. There's a lot of people who love them both.







Based on the majority of comments here it seems the Windsurfer LT (Latest Technology?) and foil (Future of Windsurfing?) has made the humble raceboard "obsolete".

If there are any LT sailors (or foilers) no longer using their old raceboards let me know as we can surely use them here in Brisbane.
The raceboard fleet here is growing and they handle the range of wind and wave conditions that we sail in very well.

Also, the raceboard nationals will be held at RQYS in Jan 2020 and there may be a few sailors looking for a raceboard to join the fun.

So if you have any "obsolete" Mistral, F2, Fanatic raceboards taking up room in your garage and need to make room for more LTs, don't throw them out, let me know




I don't think anyone has claimed RBs are obsolete. They are a significant and vital part of the sport imho, and great to sail in your conditions and others.



Refer to point 7 in your previous post


I never said the class was obsolete. The point is that in any development class a particular design can become obsolete for racing at national level. My 1982-3 Raceboards and my IMCO are all obsolete for that, and so is my Equipe 2 rig.

Chris249
285 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 2:27PM
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azuli said..

RichardG said..
Raceboard is great there are just none racing in for example Western Australia where there is no fleet, compared to say Qld and NSW. LT is the only fleet course racing here in WA for windsurfers. LT is bringing back course racing which is fabulous. That's great if raceboards are popular elsewhere but we have not seen so in WA sadly. LT is the cheapest and most accessible way to get racing from a yachting perspective and its technical, fast, fun and competitive. We have many great sailors in our fleet. We are expecting over 30 at our states in WA next year up from 24 in 2019. There are many LT detractors on this thread many of whom have never sailed the board but there seems many more who are buying and sailing LTs and racing them. Severne is now cobranding the LT, which illustrates the compelling need many manufacturers see in getting on board with the growth.



It is great to see longboard racing return to Perth. If I was still living there I would probably join in the fun on the river too (when I wasn't wave sailing).

Just wondering...if you were racing a marathon from Rottnest Island to Fremantle in the afternoon when the Doctor was in, would you choose to ride your Mistral Equipe or your LT?


I'd reckon it would depend on the individual person's aims, desires and mood, the fleet, and many other factors.

It's like asking whether I would race my fast spinnaker cat (which is mostly quicker than a RB), my laser, one of my RBs, my LT or the big boat. Which was quickest would be about the last thing I'd consider.

azuli
QLD, 203 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 4:51PM
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Chris249 said..


I never said the class was obsolete. The point is that in any development class a particular design can become obsolete for racing at national level. My 1982-3 Raceboards and my IMCO are all obsolete for that, and so is my Equipe 2 rig.

Thanks for clarifying your point. However raceboard class isn't really a development class like it was in the old PBA days.
While the '82-3 vintage designs might be getting on a bit, the IMCO and Equipe's are still competitive in the right hands.
Send them up here if you don't want to use them

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 2:53PM
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I think doing the Rottnest race on a longboard might be frightening in these conditions, when Anders Bringdal was doing average speed 30 knots (Typo in article states 60 knots maybe 60 kmh was meant). The windspeeds were 25 knots plus with high seas. I believe the article to be inaccurate as 60 knots sounds incredulous. The better view is an average speed of close to 30 knots (56 km/h) to cover the distance of 17 km from Thompson Bay , Rotto to the finish at Leighton in 19 minutes meaning likely he hit much higher speeds surfing down the high waves. Neither an LT or Equipe would be fun in these conditions, in my opinion. Infact it would be downright crazy and I would not do it. Would you ?

The 1990 race was a little controversial and had to be run twice. It was open to any windsurfer and it started at Leighton Beach. It was sailed out to a mark and then competitors had to work upwind to another mark off Port Beach, and then only the first 30 sailors were allowed to make the crossing to Rotto. There was a fairly light seabreeze, and by the time the first ten or so sailors had got around the mark off Thompsons Bay, and back to the finish at Leighton, the breeze stopped and then went east, leaving more than half of the fleet trying to make their way back into the offshore breeze. There were flares going off everywhere and people coming in up and down the coast, making it a logistical nightmare. Everybody who needed to be was eventually rescued however. Anyway, the race was cancelled and then re-run a week later. That race is described in the following article from the West Australian newspaper. At the second attempt it was way windier. It was by all accounts 25 knots +. Seas were large near Rottnest offshore and conditions challenging. The race went pretty smoothly, and I understand as per the article below Anders Bringdal managed to take a big win, making the 17km return leg crossing from Rotto to Leighton in 19 minutes, averaging close to 30 knots. Australia's Scott Mckercher (now LT sailor and world champ wave sailor) finished second- a brilliant sail since he was the highest place Australian competitor and top Aussie speed sailor Peter Dans finished highly too in a gutsy effort just behind ..Peter Davidson of Perth sponsored by Mark Taylor's (current LT sailor) Broadway Windsurf'n'Sail (now SurfSail Australia) rode a newly released Bombora Xit to a "top five" finish in the amateurs in what was remarkable due to his need to come to the aid of a rival competitor in distress. (please read article below). It was also remarkable since it was a plastic board showing the rapid capability of these "plastic fantastics" particularly in heavy weather, wind and wave conditions. The board was an "orthagonal concept" as designed by Tom Luedecke (assisted by shaping/design from Strapper's Mike DeSciascio) with artwork by Mark Paul.

Once more dear friends, it is hoped Anders Bringdal and many other superstars including some mentioned above will return to battle and show us their "mettle" again with the new Windsurfer LT by plucking up the courage to again compete in the Windsurfer Worlds in 2020 in Perth. Come on....its been a while since 1984 !

azuli
QLD, 203 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 5:26PM
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RichardG said..
I think doing the Rottnest race on a longboard might be frightening in these conditions, when Anders Bringdal was doing average speed 30 knots (Typo in article states 60 knots maybe 60 kmh was meant). The windspeeds were 25 knots plus with high seas. I believe the article to be inaccurate as 60 knots sounds incredulous. The better view is an average speed of close to 30 knots (56 km/h) to cover the distance of 17 km from Thompson Bay , Rotto to the finish at Leighton in 19 minutes meaning likely he hit much higher speeds surfing down the high waves. Neither an LT or Equipe would be fun in these conditions, in my opinion. Infact it would be downright crazy and I would not do it. Would you ?

The 1990 race was a little controversial and had to be run twice. It was open to any windsurfer and it started at Leighton Beach. It was sailed out to a mark and then competitors had to work upwind to another mark off Port Beach, and then only the first 30 sailors were allowed to make the crossing to Rotto. There was a fairly light seabreeze, and by the time the first ten or so sailors had got around the mark off Thompsons Bay, and back to the finish at Leighton, the breeze stopped and then went east, leaving more than half of the fleet trying to make their way back into the offshore breeze. There were flares going off everywhere and people coming in up and down the coast, making it a logistical nightmare. Everybody who needed to be was eventually rescued however. Anyway, the race was cancelled and then re-run a week later. That race is described in the following article from the West Australian newspaper. At the second attempt it was way windier. It was by all accounts 25 knots +. Seas were large near Rottnest offshore and conditions challenging. The race went pretty smoothly, and I understand as per the article below Anders Bringdal managed to take a big win, making the 17km return leg crossing from Rotto to Leighton in 19 minutes, averaging close to 30 knots. Australia's Scott Mckercher (now LT sailor and world champ wave sailor) finished second- a brilliant sail since he was the highest place Australian competitor and top Aussie speed sailor Peter Dans finished highly too in a gutsy effort just behind ..Peter Davidson of Perth sponsored by Mark Taylor's (current LT sailor) Broadway Windsurf'n'Sail (now SurfSail Australia) rode a newly released Bombora Xit to a "top five" finish in the amateurs in what was remarkable due to his need to come to the aid of a rival competitor in distress. (please read article below). It was also remarkable since it was a plastic board showing the rapid capability of these "plastic fantastics" particularly in heavy weather, wind and wave conditions. The board was an "orthagonal concept" as designed by Tom Luedecke (assisted by shaping/design from Strapper's Mike DeSciascio) with artwork by Mark Paul.

Once more dear friends, it is hoped Anders Bringdal and many other superstars including some mentioned above will return to battle and show us their "mettle" again with the new Windsurfer LT by plucking up the courage to again compete in the Windsurfer Worlds in 2020 in Perth. Come on....its been a while since 1984 !


Thanks for posting the article, brings back some old memories
To answer your question, yes absolutely and would happily use your Equipe, it would behave better in those conditions than the current SB Phantom design.

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 3:31PM
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azuli said..


















RichardG said..
I think doing the Rottnest race on a longboard might be frightening in these conditions, when Anders Bringdal was doing average speed 30 knots (Typo in article states 60 knots maybe 60 kmh was meant). The windspeeds were 25 knots plus with high seas. I believe the article to be inaccurate as 60 knots sounds incredulous. The better view is an average speed of close to 30 knots (56 km/h) to cover the distance of 17 km from Thompson Bay , Rotto to the finish at Leighton in 19 minutes meaning likely he hit much higher speeds surfing down the high waves. Neither an LT or Equipe would be fun in these conditions, in my opinion. Infact it would be downright crazy and I would not do it. Would you ?

The 1990 race was a little controversial and had to be run twice. It was open to any windsurfer and it started at Leighton Beach. It was sailed out to a mark and then competitors had to work upwind to another mark off Port Beach, and then only the first 30 sailors were allowed to make the crossing to Rotto. There was a fairly light seabreeze, and by the time the first ten or so sailors had got around the mark off Thompsons Bay, and back to the finish at Leighton, the breeze stopped and then went east, leaving more than half of the fleet trying to make their way back into the offshore breeze. There were flares going off everywhere and people coming in up and down the coast, making it a logistical nightmare. Everybody who needed to be was eventually rescued however. Anyway, the race was cancelled and then re-run a week later. That race is described in the following article from the West Australian newspaper. At the second attempt it was way windier. It was by all accounts 25 knots +. Seas were large near Rottnest offshore and conditions challenging. The race went pretty smoothly, and I understand as per the article below Anders Bringdal managed to take a big win, making the 17km return leg crossing from Rotto to Leighton in 19 minutes, averaging close to 30 knots. Australia's Scott Mckercher (now LT sailor and world champ wave sailor) finished second- a brilliant sail since he was the highest place Australian competitor and top Aussie speed sailor Peter Dans finished highly too in a gutsy effort just behind ..Peter Davidson of Perth sponsored by Mark Taylor's (current LT sailor) Broadway Windsurf'n'Sail (now SurfSail Australia) rode a newly released Bombora Xit to a "top five" finish in the amateurs in what was remarkable due to his need to come to the aid of a rival competitor in distress. (please read article below). It was also remarkable since it was a plastic board showing the rapid capability of these "plastic fantastics" particularly in heavy weather, wind and wave conditions. The board was an "orthagonal concept" as designed by Tom Luedecke (assisted by shaping/design from Strapper's Mike DeSciascio) with artwork by Mark Paul.

Once more dear friends, it is hoped Anders Bringdal and many other superstars including some mentioned above will return to battle and show us their "mettle" again with the new Windsurfer LT by plucking up the courage to again compete in the Windsurfer Worlds in 2020 in Perth. Come on....its been a while since 1984 !




















Thanks for posting the article, brings back some old memories
To answer your question, yes absolutely and would happily use your Equipe, it would behave better in those conditions than the current SB Phantom design.





Its a pleasure to post it. You would of course have to use either the 9.5 m2 raceboard or the 7.4 m2 Mistral IMCO sail. Your choice. I would be happy to charter my IMCO (not Equipe) but same shape (just as fast in those high wind and waves) to you "sans" sail for a small fee. Bonne Chance ! Incidentally, the 1989 Rottnest race winner, the first event, was Lach Simpson, current proprietor of Yob SUP and also recently acquired new LT owner. Apparently he also plays around with windwings on SUPs and foils, and thoroughly enjoys it, each to his own I guess.

Reflex Films
WA, 1367 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 4:31PM
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Lots of fun to be had on lots of craft - I felt like that wing foil photo and comment was a little unfair - given I was shooting off one of the boats and witnessed this - it was a bit of an eye-opener, to be honest.

I grew up racing Windsurf and race board class with daggerboards and it was heaps of fun. Especially when you live somewhere not so windy.

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 4:33PM
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Reflex Films said..
Lots of fun to be had on lots of craft - I felt like that wing foil photo and comment was a little unfair - given I was shooting off one of the boats and witnessed this - it was a bit of an eye-opener, to be honest.

I grew up racing Windsurf and race board class with daggerboards and it was heaps of fun. Especially when you live somewhere not so windy.







Thats a great video. I agree but these forums are not fair at the end of the day, having a populist bent where many people posting here are not constrained by reasonableness nor fairness. At the end of the day people should not rush to judge others enjoyment on the water since there are many facets of venturing into the sea that many enjoy. Still this is about LT and we should keep on topic I myself have been lead off topic by others here. Having said that I endorse your sentiments entirely and people should refrain from casting dispersions on many watercraft.

lotofwind
NSW, 5410 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 7:46PM
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Reflex Films said..
Lots of fun to be had on lots of craft - I felt like that wing foil photo and comment was a little unfair - given I was shooting off one of the boats and witnessed this - it was a bit of an eye-opener, to be honest.

I grew up racing Windsurf and race board class with daggerboards and it was heaps of fun. Especially when you live somewhere not so windy.




I think that's the best foil wind wing vid I have seen. Definitely the most efficient light wind modern option for windsurfers by far.

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 4:52PM
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lotofwind said..














Reflex Films said..
Lots of fun to be had on lots of craft - I felt like that wing foil photo and comment was a little unfair - given I was shooting off one of the boats and witnessed this - it was a bit of an eye-opener, to be honest.

I grew up racing Windsurf and race board class with daggerboards and it was heaps of fun. Especially when you live somewhere not so windy.


















I think that's the best foil wind wing vid I have seen. Definitely the most efficient light wind modern option for windsurfers by far.















Looks like a good option for a kitesurfer to avoid those kites falling from the sky in light conditions. Alternatively you could use a longboard with sail or windwing like many in light stuff. Have seen many kiters swim in "zero to light" conditions when say the LT can sail in fine.

Refer

www.thekiteboarder.com/2019/06/foil-wing-design-interview-with-ken-winner/

"First, let's be clear: Nothing replaces windsurfing or kitesurfing or prone surf foiling or SUP surf foiling or downwind paddle foiling. These are all awesome sports and they all have their particular advantages and appeal.That said, the Foil Wing has its own particular advantages. To name two, it's light and simple. A Foil Wing weights 2 or 3kg, max. Pump and go. No lines. No need for a huge sandy beach. No need for a big, heavy, expensive sail. No need for footstraps or harnesses or harness lines.To name another, it's great for going straight downwind in swell. With a windsurf rig you have to swing the boom from side to side when carving heel-side to toe-side and back. This is not as easy, smooth, clean, intuitive and fun as effortlessly handling the Foil Wing through a similar maneuver. Some might say you can just go clew-first part of the time with the windsurf rig, but, really? No. We're trying to have fun here.
And if you want to go downwind down-swell with a kite, you have to be thinking about the kite location all the time. Kiters who go down-the-line on a foil on a light-wind day constantly have to worry about line tension. Not so with the Foil Wing. It's just so easy to put the Foil Wing exactly where you need it."

So while it is fun, a relative concept, the foil with windwing won't be replacing an LT in course racing and overall associated course related fun as I see it. Nothing right now in Australia is growing faster in terms of one design course racing than the LT.

Still you should start your own thread on the windwing since it has taken your fancy.

lotofwind
NSW, 5410 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 8:07PM
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Sorry, I didn't know you started this thread and control what is posted, oooppps
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 5:09PM
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lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.





Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle genuine debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.

lotofwind
NSW, 5410 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 9:17PM
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RichardG said..



lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.







Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle geniune debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.




Yep, no problem, sorry to upset you. Was just commenting on the vid posted on here by another member which I think he was comparing to good/bad things that are happening to windsurfing. If the original poster is worried about what others have contributed, Im sure he will let us know. cheers.
Couldnt you attach a foil to the LT and use a wind wing?? The board has way more than enough width and length??

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 6:20PM
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lotofwind said..






RichardG said..







lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.











Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle geniune debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.








Yep, no problem, sorry to upset you. Was just commenting on the vid posted on here by another member which I think he was comparing to good/bad things that are happening to windsurfing. If the original poster is worried about what others have contributed, Im sure he will let us know. cheers.







Noted and Thanks. Not upset just can't fathom why you are posting here under the LT thread since you are a kiter and have no interest. I have zero knowledge about the "wing surfer" foiling so I suggest you ask your question in the foiling thread. I don't see wingsurfer working well on anything other than foil set up since it was tried in the 1980s on windsurfer boards short and long and until now is only popular on specialised new foil surf boards. So again post your question in foiling threads where it seems more at home.

lotofwind
NSW, 5410 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 9:24PM
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Select to expand quote
RichardG said..


lotofwind said..



RichardG said..




lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.








Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle geniune debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.





Yep, no problem, sorry to upset you. Was just commenting on the vid posted on here by another member which I think he was comparing to good/bad things that are happening to windsurfing. If the original poster is worried about what others have contributed, Im sure he will let us know. cheers.




Noted and Thanks. Not upset just can't fathom why you are posting here under the LT thread since you are a kiter have no interest.



I use to windsurf and work at a hire/school, till kitesurfing opened new doors. Just watched the foil vid and thought it was interesting and looked enjoyable in light winds compared to just standing on a massive board and holding a big sail.

edit, sorry, you keep editing your answers faster than I can move my thumbs to answer on my phone. lol

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 6:27PM
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lotofwind said..
I use to windsurf and work at a hire/school, till kitesurfing opened new doors. Just watched the foil vid and thought it was interesting and looked enjoyable in light winds compared to just standing on a massive board and holding a big sail.


RichardG said..


lotofwind said..



RichardG said..




lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.








Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle geniune debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.





Yep, no problem, sorry to upset you. Was just commenting on the vid posted on here by another member which I think he was comparing to good/bad things that are happening to windsurfing. If the original poster is worried about what others have contributed, Im sure he will let us know. cheers.




Noted and Thanks. Not upset just can't fathom why you are posting here under the LT thread since you are a kiter have no interest.



I use to windsurf and work at a hire/school, till kitesurfing opened new doors. Just watched the foil vid and thought it was interesting and looked enjoyable in light winds compared to just standing on a massive board and holding a big sail.


Noted. I repeat my earlier comment the wing surfer is most beneficial on a foiling set up so post elsewhere.

Chris249
285 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 6:32PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
azuli said..



Chris249 said..



I never said the class was obsolete. The point is that in any development class a particular design can become obsolete for racing at national level. My 1982-3 Raceboards and my IMCO are all obsolete for that, and so is my Equipe 2 rig.


Thanks for clarifying your point. However raceboard class isn't really a development class like it was in the old PBA days.
While the '82-3 vintage designs might be getting on a bit, the IMCO and Equipe's are still competitive in the right hands.
Send them up here if you don't want to use them


It's universally agreed among all I've spoken to that the imco is no longer truly competitive; too small
especially given the shift to 9.5 sails. My Equipe's issue is the rig, as I said. The board has structural issues and isn't worth selling as I may still race it one day.

Chris249
285 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 6:36PM
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Select to expand quote
lotofwind said..

RichardG said..



lotofwind said..




RichardG said..





lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.









Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle geniune debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.






Yep, no problem, sorry to upset you. Was just commenting on the vid posted on here by another member which I think he was comparing to good/bad things that are happening to windsurfing. If the original poster is worried about what others have contributed, Im sure he will let us know. cheers.





Noted and Thanks. Not upset just can't fathom why you are posting here under the LT thread since you are a kiter have no interest.




I use to windsurf and work at a hire/school, till kitesurfing opened new doors. Just watched the foil vid and thought it was interesting and looked enjoyable in light winds compared to just standing on a massive board and holding a big sail.

edit, sorry, you keep editing your answers faster than I can move my thumbs to answer on my phone. lol


That's like saying that kiting is just standing on a little board and just dangling under a sail, or skiing is just standing on planks

lotofwind
NSW, 5410 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 10:00PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Chris249 said..


lotofwind said..



RichardG said..





lotofwind said..






RichardG said..







lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.











Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle geniune debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.








Yep, no problem, sorry to upset you. Was just commenting on the vid posted on here by another member which I think he was comparing to good/bad things that are happening to windsurfing. If the original poster is worried about what others have contributed, Im sure he will let us know. cheers.







Noted and Thanks. Not upset just can't fathom why you are posting here under the LT thread since you are a kiter have no interest.






I use to windsurf and work at a hire/school, till kitesurfing opened new doors. Just watched the foil vid and thought it was interesting and looked enjoyable in light winds compared to just standing on a massive board and holding a big sail.

edit, sorry, you keep editing your answers faster than I can move my thumbs to answer on my phone. lol




That's like saying that kiting is just standing on a little board and just dangling under a sail, or skiing is just standing on planks



Yes , you are right, in 8knt of wind that's all others can do, but the foil with a wing in the vid poster on here they are riding swell and carving etc.
Looks way more exciting and skillful than pumping a sail on a massive board or signing the crap out of a big kite? Foil using a wing/sail, or kite seems to be opening the doors to the future.

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 7:13PM
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Select to expand quote
lotofwind said..Foil using a wing/sail, or kite seems to be opening the doors to the future.

Chris249 said..



lotofwind said..




RichardG said..






lotofwind said..







RichardG said..








lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.












Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle geniune debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.









Yep, no problem, sorry to upset you. Was just commenting on the vid posted on here by another member which I think he was comparing to good/bad things that are happening to windsurfing. If the original poster is worried about what others have contributed, Im sure he will let us know. cheers.








Noted and Thanks. Not upset just can't fathom why you are posting here under the LT thread since you are a kiter have no interest.







I use to windsurf and work at a hire/school, till kitesurfing opened new doors. Just watched the foil vid and thought it was interesting and looked enjoyable in light winds compared to just standing on a massive board and holding a big sail.

edit, sorry, you keep editing your answers faster than I can move my thumbs to answer on my phone. lol





That's like saying that kiting is just standing on a little board and just dangling under a sail, or skiing is just standing on planks




Yes , you are right, in 8knt of wind that's all others can do, but the foil with a wing in the vid poster on here they are riding swell and carving etc.
Looks way more exciting and skillful than pumping a sail on a massive board or signing the crap out of a big kite? Foil using a wing/sail, or kite seems to be opening the doors to the future.


Now the wing/kite with foil should be discussed in the foiling or kiting section, so please go there for the door to the future you desire. Thanks.

CJW
NSW, 1588 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 11:05PM
Thumbs Up

^^ you specifically stated in the 'is foiling the best thing ever...' thread that it was not solely to discuss that particular topic after the LT became heavily infused into the debate....which is fine. Works both ways though....yeah?

RichardG
WA, 2894 posts
Monday , 2 Dec 2019 8:20PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
CJW said..
^^ you specifically stated in the 'is foiling the best thing ever...' thread that it was not solely to discuss that particular topic after the LT became heavily infused into the debate....which is fine. Works both ways though....yeah?



It could but Belly25 opened this thread for the reason contrary to my proposition thereby negating what I proposed. It seems unfair for the foilers to now resile from their contention, which I suspect included yourself, that reference to the LT was undesirable in the foiling context. Further there is a separate topic thread here on foiling and also an independent section entirely devoted to foiling. To take your contention now advanced just above here, to its ultimate conclusion would lead to further LT references in foiling posts which is exactly what the foilers were seeking to avoid. Thanks.

Belly25
NSW, 105 posts
Tuesday , 3 Dec 2019 5:36AM
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Select to expand quote
CJW said..
^^ you specifically stated in the 'is foiling the best thing ever...' thread that it was not solely to discuss that particular topic after the LT became heavily infused into the debate....which is fine. Works both ways though....yeah?



Thanks CJW and Lotofwind, just beautiful work.

To the promotors of the LT that like to ambush completely irrelevant threads with unrelated content I do hope you now understand why I started this post for you. Which by the way was actually done to satisfy my twisted sense of humour, nothing more. I cant believe what was started as an ironic thread now has 5 pages of content. Incredible.

Hope the wind blows today wherever you are. Enjoy

Chris249
285 posts
Tuesday , 3 Dec 2019 5:21AM
Thumbs Up

But it's completely wrong for anyone to ask if something is the best ever and then complain just because people dare to give an answer. And the op in the foiling thread did not object.

By by the way, for many years most longboard threads have been full of diversions by shortboarders, and the original LT threads here had posts saying that we should use inflatables and Technos instead.

Simple rule - don't ask a question if you don't want answers!

Chris249
285 posts
Tuesday , 3 Dec 2019 5:32AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
lotofwind said..




Chris249 said..






lotofwind said..







RichardG said..









lotofwind said..










RichardG said..











lotofwind said..
yeah, wasn't talking about "course racing", which is a small group who are into competitions to prove themselves and their "skills" ,
was just talking about the general public that aren't into comps and just enjoy free riding for pleasure.
I think that foil/wing vid will be attractive to the youth as it look a lot more fun modern. All good, each to their own, just my opinion.
I don't have an invested interest in either so not too worried.















Cool. Sorry I did not start this thread and am not intending to stifle geniune debate, but foiler Belly25 did start this thread to keep foiling out of the discussion and who intended foiling not be covered here, which "foiling" is the real opener for the new windwing with SUP/surf foil. You may want to start your own thread on the topic of windwing since it is really not relevant to this one and the originator of this thread did not intend this cover the windwing. The windwing has existed since the early 1980s and possibly earlier but the foil has re-opened its appeal. For that reason you would be well advised to start a thread on the windwing with foil topic under the foiling section. Thanks a million.












Yep, no problem, sorry to upset you. Was just commenting on the vid posted on here by another member which I think he was comparing to good/bad things that are happening to windsurfing. If the original poster is worried about what others have contributed, Im sure he will let us know. cheers.











Noted and Thanks. Not upset just can't fathom why you are posting here under the LT thread since you are a kiter have no interest.










I use to windsurf and work at a hire/school, till kitesurfing opened new doors. Just watched the foil vid and thought it was interesting and looked enjoyable in light winds compared to just standing on a massive board and holding a big sail.

edit, sorry, you keep editing your answers faster than I can move my thumbs to answer on my phone. lol








That's like saying that kiting is just standing on a little board and just dangling under a sail, or skiing is just standing on planks







Yes , you are right, in 8knt of wind that's all others can do, but the foil with a wing in the vid poster on here they are riding swell and carving etc.
Looks way more exciting and skillful than pumping a sail on a massive board or signing the crap out of a big kite? Foil using a wing/sail, or kite seems to be opening the doors to the future.





It may look exciting to you, but I have news for you; you are not a god. Other people find different things exciting. Some people think that standing on a board under a kite looks boring as bat**** compared to skydiving. Some people find playing just off a beach to lack challenge and adrenalin compared to crossing Bass Strait in a gale at night. You should perhaps stop being so bloody up yourself and arrogant and closed
minded about what is fun.

Oh, and it's stupid to say there's no skill in racing, and disgustingly arrogant. If there was no skill everyone would win. There are lots of complex skills in racing anything, even though you prefer to ignore the fact

It's pretty dishonest of you to say "each to their own" when you spend so much time throwing **** at people who dare to be different from you. Try downsizing your ego and respecting others for once.

windsufering
VIC, 891 posts
Tuesday , 3 Dec 2019 8:37AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Belly25 said..

CJW said..
^^ you specifically stated in the 'is foiling the best thing ever...' thread that it was not solely to discuss that particular topic after the LT became heavily infused into the debate....which is fine. Works both ways though....yeah?




Thanks CJW and Lotofwind, just beautiful work.

To the promotors of the LT that like to ambush completely irrelevant threads with unrelated content I do hope you now understand why I started this post for you. Which by the way was actually done to satisfy my twisted sense of humour, nothing more. I cant believe what was started as an ironic thread now has 5 pages of content. Incredible.

Hope the wind blows today wherever you are. Enjoy


LOL they won the internet LOL



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Forums > Windsurfing General


"Is the LT the best thing that ever happened to windsurfing? Or has it ruined it?" started by Belly25