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Shooting the breeze.

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 10:13am

D3 said..
Vocal groups and individuals shaming people who do take precautions against Covid

Let's not forget all the vaxxed not being allowed into bottle shops and restaurants. It was horrible.

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 10:17am

FormulaNova said..
But most people are the same. They look at the risk and the benefit.

You looked at the risk and the benefits & decided against the 5th jab. I looked at the risk and the benefits & decided against the 1st one.

I'm glad I had that choice because I was unemployed living in a van in the outback.

psychojoe

2241 posts

psychojoe

WA, 2241 posts

8 May 2023 10:21am

D3 said..
- Vocal groups campaigning that vaccines are more dangerous than the disease

The vaccine doesn't need to be as bad or worse than the disease, if it's even 10 or 20% as bad as the disease then it's junk.

myscreenname

2485 posts

myscreenname

2485 posts

8 May 2023 10:36am

Flying Dutchman said..

Let's not forget all the vaxxed not being allowed into bottle shops and restaurants. It was horrible.

Why didn't you go back to the motherland if you believed this country treatment of you was 'horrible'?

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 10:43am

myscreenname.
Why didn't you go back to the motherland if you believed this country treatment of you was 'horrible'?

Myscreenname - Fark off back to Holland your motherland.
Me - I thought I was home, this place is called New Holland right?
Myscreenname - It's Australia, get out!
Me - But I'm unvaxxed, they won't let me on the plane.
Myscreenname - You're not local to this country!
Me - I didn't know you were Aboriginal?
Myscreenname - I'm not.
Me - So which motherland are you going back to?

D3

1595 posts

WA, 1595 posts

8 May 2023 11:46am

psychojoe said..

D3 said..
- Vocal groups campaigning that vaccines are more dangerous than the disease

The vaccine doesn't need to be as bad or worse than the disease, if it's even 10 or 20% as bad as the disease then it's junk.

Exactly what I'm talking about.
You're saying that a vaccine is worthless if it causes someone to feel unwell for a day or two, even if it's likely to have prevented them from being sick for a week or more or even hospitalised (let alone dieing).

By that metric, other worthless/junk vaccines include (not limited to):
Tetanus, flu, Hepatitis, shingles, pneumococcal and meningococcal

You have no reasoning to support your claim, just an opinion that 10% as bad = Worthless. (Such a weird metric)
And by you and many others voicing that opinion, you imply that Covid vaccines in particular are worthless and as well as dangerous.

You don't even need evidence to support it, because 10% is an easy number to understand, if medically impossible to measure.
And so it's easy to spread the fear.

japie

NSW

7146 posts

japie

NSW, 7146 posts

8 May 2023 1:50pm

Spreading the fear is what convinced people.

D3

1595 posts

WA, 1595 posts

8 May 2023 11:52am

Flying Dutchman said..

D3 said..
Vocal groups and individuals shaming people who do take precautions against Covid

Let's not forget all the vaxxed not being allowed into bottle shops and restaurants. It was horrible.

Yep, let's compare mid-pandemic public health measures to individuals doing things that have zero impact on others.

Wasn't there a comment just the other day that was making fun of someone wearing a mask?

Because somehow mask wearing offends some people?

remery

3709 posts

remery

WA, 3709 posts

8 May 2023 1:25pm

FormulaNova said..

It's pretty obvious, but maybe not to you.

For a lot of people they saw the risk and the benefit and weighed it up. It has now changed with Omicron and its variants. For the original strain and Delta people would have seen the risk as somewhat higher.

I have had my 4th and it has been more than 6 months now, and almost 6 months since I actually had Covid.

I think I have a reasonable grasp on the science and appreciate that the strains are going to keep changing and the vaccine is always going to lag behind, pretty much like the flu vaccinations.

I am not sure if I am going to get my 5th. It doesn't look likely. But despite some on here saying that its 'safe and effective', we have all heard reports of people suffering adverse reactions. I wonder whether its likely to have an adverse reaction at all if you haven't already had one, but is the risk now worth it?

It sounds like you treat it as a religion; where you either hate vaccines or love them. I think you might be surprised that most people sit somewhere inbetween. Probably more negative sentiment due to social media influences though.

I think people treat it more as a political issue than religion.

remery

3709 posts

remery

WA, 3709 posts

8 May 2023 1:30pm

FormulaNova said..

remery said..
Pre-COVID there was about 1.8 million cases of Myocarditis each year worldwide. I wonder how they now determine which cases are caused by the vaccine and which are just bad luck/genes? Are the tax payers funding compensation for people who were going to get Myocarditis regardless of vaccination?

www.mdpi.com/2077-0383/10/4/603

You have to have supporting information from your doctor/doctors to make a c;laim, so I am sure there has to be a significant link in order to get your claim to be successful.

I googled 'Covid and autoimmune' and there seems to be a few articles on the topic. Makes you wonder if the response to the actual virus is the same thing that some people are seeing in the vaccination?

I wonder how many 'anti-vaxxers' are cluttering up this compensation scheme by saying they had an adverse reaction when it was something insignificant? It seems 'they' seem to always know of someone personally that had a reaction yet the rest of us don't seem to know more than 'a friend of a friend'.

It doesn't take too much to see that the more distant you are from 'a friend' to see that the same adverse outcome could be reported as more common than it is.

There are plenty of antivax doctors out there.

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 1:59pm

remery said..
There are plenty of antivax doctors out there.

I love the term anti-vaxxer. Labelling someone as anti-vaxxer because they decided the Covid vaccine is not for them is like labelling someone anti-car because they decided to use their bicycle and not their Troopy to get the bread.

myscreenname

2485 posts

myscreenname

2485 posts

8 May 2023 1:59pm

Flying Dutchman said..

myscreenname.
Why didn't you go back to the motherland if you believed this country treatment of you was 'horrible'?

Why are you whinging about the rules in this country, no one is twisting your arms to stay here. If Australia's rules are so unfair why do you stay here? Is Holland any better?

remery

3709 posts

remery

WA, 3709 posts

8 May 2023 2:09pm

Flying Dutchman said..

remery said..
There are plenty of antivax doctors out there.

expertsdirect.com/notorious-anti-vaxxer-acts-as-expert-witness-in-federal-circuit-court/

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 2:12pm

myscreenname said..
Why are you whinging about the rules in this country, no one is twisting your arms to stay here.
If Australia's rules are so unfair why do you stay here? Is Holland any better?

What you call whinging I call not being bent over by rules that in the long term have turned out to be misguided.

Holland is no better, most of the population are lemmings. Except for some parts like Amsterdam and other liberal pockets.

myscreenname

2485 posts

myscreenname

2485 posts

8 May 2023 2:23pm

Flying Dutchman said..
What you call whinging.

You said not being allowed into resturants and bottle shops was 'horrible'

They were rules that were in place, some years ago for a brief period. There were many rules, that we may not have agreed with, but every country I know of had some rules relating to the pandemic.

Why keep whinging and banging on about rules that no longer exist?

As citizens you can vote out those who impose unfair rules. As a guest you can leave if you don't like the rules.

Are you a citizen or a guest here?

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 2:29pm

myscreenname said..

Flying Dutchman said..
What you call whinging.

Just for the record, I gave zero farks not being allowed into a bottle shop or restaurant. I was too busy windsurfing & I quit alcohol 20 years ago.

I just think it was classic they wouldn't let unvaccinated into a bottle-o as another stick to get people to conform haha.

Since you seem obsessed with the level of my Aussieness, I'll explain my heritage. Born in The Netherlands in 1977. Mum & Dad moved to Australia in 1978 when I was 15 months old. Have lived here ever since. Have dual citizenship for Australia and Holland.

myscreenname

2485 posts

myscreenname

2485 posts

8 May 2023 2:32pm

Flying Dutchman said..
I was too busy windsurfing.

Is there no wind today?

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 2:38pm

myscreenname said..
Is there no wind today?

5kts here in Gero.

myscreenname

2485 posts

myscreenname

2485 posts

8 May 2023 2:51pm

Flying Dutchman said..
5kts here in Gero.

Is it only in calm days that you whinge about Australia?

remery

3709 posts

remery

WA, 3709 posts

8 May 2023 3:10pm

Flying Dutchman said..

The death rate from COVID in Netherlands is 1.70 times higher than Australia.

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 3:30pm

remery said..
The death rate from COVID in Netherlands is 1.70 times higher than Australia.

Bit hard to compare a country that freezes in winter, has 18 million people on a piece of land that is almost half the size of Tasmania & has neighbouring countries you can drive to in 1 hr from most spots in the country.

myscreenname

2485 posts

myscreenname

2485 posts

8 May 2023 3:43pm

Flying Dutchman said..
Bit hard to compare a country that freezes in winter, has 18 million people on a piece of land that is almost half the size of Tasmania & has neighbouring countries you can drive to in 1 hr from most spots in the country.

Sounds 'horrible'

lotofwind

NSW

6451 posts

lotofwind

NSW, 6451 posts

8 May 2023 5:45pm

japie said..
Spreading the fear is what convinced people.

Like you trying to "spread the fear" trying to convince everyone that the gov. are trying to depopulate the country spreading covid on purpose. lol Then they were trying to depopulate Australia with the covid vax. lol
Another conspiracy theory, like all the others, debunked and laughable.
Feel really sorry for the blind that followed the twitter/youtube/clickbait.
It seems memes have a lot of influence on the "easily fooled"

We are still waiting for your evidence you said you have that proves all this, from the secret German covid society ???
Is it still all a secret? or are you allowed to talk about it now?

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 4:25pm

myscreenname said..
Sounds 'horrible'

It's not that bad.

FormulaNova

15109 posts

FormulaNova

WA, 15109 posts

8 May 2023 4:40pm

Flying Dutchman said..

Since you seem obsessed with the level of my Aussieness, I'll explain my heritage. Born in The Netherlands in 1977. Mum & Dad moved to Australia in 1978 when I was 15 months old. Have lived here ever since. Have dual citizenship for Australia and Holland.

Piss off you wog!

Sorry, I can't help showing my 'Australianness'. Here since 15 months old? That doesn't show the level of commitment we want here. The Liberal party would have you deported if you got a speeding fine.

The above is a joke, but no one really cares do they?

FormulaNova

15109 posts

FormulaNova

WA, 15109 posts

8 May 2023 4:42pm

Flying Dutchman said..

remery said..
There are plenty of antivax doctors out there.

Yeah but often 'they' show their colours as not being against just the Covid vaccine, but against all vaccines, and often thinking everything is a conspiracy as well.

Contrary to my explanation of weighing the risk versus benefits, a lot of anti-covid-vaxxers seem to just say 'no it is bad' and some even say if its even 10% as bad as the disease to not use it. What sort of twisted logic is that?

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 4:44pm

FormulaNova said..
The above is a joke, but no one really cares do they?

I don't care but myscreenname seemed to make it an issue so I answered it.

FormulaNova

15109 posts

FormulaNova

WA, 15109 posts

8 May 2023 4:45pm

Flying Dutchman said..

D3 said..
Vocal groups and individuals shaming people who do take precautions against Covid

Let's not forget all the vaxxed not being allowed into bottle shops and restaurants. It was horrible.

That was an intelligence test. If you were not smart enough to get someone else to buy your alcohol for you or your food, then you deserve to have to sit down and think it out.

I suspect that the idea of restricting access to bottle shops was that its often difficult to separate a licensed venue which has a bottle-shop attached, and the idea was to keep potentially infected people away from the rest if US. Or it could have been a stick to get you to comply... I don't care.

Flying Dutchman

1752 posts

Flying Dutchman

WA, 1752 posts

8 May 2023 4:49pm

FormulaNova said..
Yeah but often 'they' show their colours as not being against just the Covid vaccine, but against all vaccines, and often thinking everything is a conspiracy as well.

I'm not part of the group that is 'anti-all-vaccines'. I just wasn't buying the message that the Covid vaccine was 'safe & effective' without the hindsight of time.

FormulaNova

15109 posts

FormulaNova

WA, 15109 posts

8 May 2023 4:50pm

Flying Dutchman said..

FormulaNova said..
But most people are the same. They look at the risk and the benefit.

Yeah sure. One of the benefits was helping out others and protecting yourself and your family. If you are free to be able to avoid that benefit, then you did the right thing for yourself. Wait long enough and the rest of the population would help you out by getting immunity. Which is essentially what has happened.

I haven't decided against the 5th vaccine yet, but as I said, I am not so keen. Did you not read that correctly? Is this a comprehension test thing?

In the midst of the lockdowns I was suggesting that we get all the antivaxxers together and let them take their chances with herd immunity. Everyone would win that way. No vaccine, and bonus immunity.

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